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Discussion in 'Dark Tranquillity' started by xDarkWolfx, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. xDarkWolfx

    xDarkWolfx Member

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    Hey guys. im new to the Dark Tranquility forum. I listened to We are the void a while ago after seeing them open for Killswitch and The devil wears prada. I was just wondering what albums i should go for next. I really liked the songs where he actually does sing like in Iridium. i also like the really dark and evil songs like Archangeleske (did i spell it right?). soooo, are there any albums that they have made that are close to that. also are Fiction and Character any good?
     
  2. Erik Erna

    Erik Erna Sheriff Of T.S.G

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    I'd say work backwards. Fiction, Character, Damage Done, Haven, Projector, The Mind's I, The Gallery, Skydancer.
     
  3. metalthraxia

    metalthraxia Member

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    Hello,

    Fiction and Character are great albums! They both have some really great songs on them. You will probably really like "The Mundane And The Magic" off Fiction. That is a duet which is pretty awesome. I think every album they have released is great and they all have something special on them. Haven is also a great album you may like.

    I also saw that tour you mentioned but I only stayed for Dark Tranquillity's set and left afterwards.
     
  4. Defiance

    Defiance I vårens ljusa kvällar

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    Yeah, I'd recommend going in reverse, stopping at Haven/Projector; then listening to all those again. Finally, continue going towards the back and listen to the oldies. Hehe oldies.
     
  5. Erik Erna

    Erik Erna Sheriff Of T.S.G

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    You have to ease into the older stuff I would imagine. I started with Haven, and then got every album afterward. Album by album the change isn't drastic, but shooting from We Are The Void to Skydancer...yeah.
     
  6. rahvin

    rahvin keeper of the flame

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    Besides, going backwards makes it all more satanic.
     
  7. Matse

    Matse Customized individuum

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    Yeah, like because if you like write 666 the other way round it is even more satanic and stuff.

    ...and I agree with the others.
     
  8. Maxim1110

    Maxim1110 Member

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    Working backwards would do fine I suppose, but if you like clean vocals you could also give Projector a try already, that one has a lot of clean vocals on it. Otherwise, Misery's Crown and The Mundane And The Magic would suit you I think ;)
     
  9. Erik Erna

    Erik Erna Sheriff Of T.S.G

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    Unless you write it upside down, then you become Hitler in Ingloruious Basterds.
     
  10. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    @rahvin: Glorious!

    Generally, the above suggestion about going straight backwards through time is a good idea. I am a very shallow listener by default, so I find it hard to process large volumes of music in one go. I will provide, then, a reverse chronological note about each album.

    We Are the Void is actually a weird DT album. It's incredible, but a great deal of time is spent playing around with other genres. Specifically, it incorporates little bits of groove, thrash, black, and gothic metal in amongst the death. Each of these experiments stretches the musical character that makes DT recognizable in slightly different ways. Personally, I think We Are the Void is an incredible album, but the experimental nature draws it just slightly away from being the pinnacle of all things DT. It's good on its own, but it I'm really more excited to see what's next. After experimenting a bit, if the next album is the Fiction to WAtV's Character, the world will blink out of existence.

    Fiction is probably the pinnacle of classic DT. It is often accused of lacking experimentation, which is a fair point. Critics ("assholes") like to get snarky and call it "Character pt. II", which makes more sense if you've heard Character. Fiction is less about expanding boundaries, but more focused on forging the insane talent of the band into a work which would induce a flood of tears in Heaven. And Hell.

    Character is a solid album, with a really unique texture created by blending some really gritty guitar work with incredibly soft synths (a strong similarity to Fiction, there). It has a lot of fast songs, but moments of incredible beauty throughout.

    Damage Done is probably the lightest album in terms of keys since Martin B. joined. In what always seemed to me as a reaction to Haven before it, this album is all about brutal guitar work. It introduces some of the incredible grinding technique that would define albums to come after. "The Enemy" is a definite exception, but the brutality in most of the rest of the album makes this a great addition to their collection.

    Haven is the first album written with full time keyboards, and holy damn does it show. While it's got some brutal moments, Haven is a really sentimental album. The whisper/growl in the verses of the title track, lyrics from which appear in my signature, is a defining example of the beauty that cuts through the ugliness of metal. In the name of all that is holy, listen to this album.

    Projector is probably the single strangest thing ever recorded. It's melodic and death metal, but it has a lot of really clean moments. This was the start of clean vocals, and it was very controversial when it was released. Expect to alternately love it and hate it, but understand that it will grip you. The magic of this one is deeper than anyone has uncovered. So far...

    Prior to Projector, you're listening to a very different band, which I only really find interesting in an archaeological sense. It's not bad, and you can hear the seeds of genius, but none of those albums really turn me on. Maybe someone else could tell you about it.

    You should probably listen to The Gallery, regardless of how far you get into Dark Tranquillity. As far as the history of music is concerned, it's right up there with the first four Black Sabbath albums. No one making metal today can say that they were not influenced or inspired by this album. Have you noticed that non-melodic death metal has almost disappeared in the face of melodic death? The Gallery. Similarly, see how many other bands list it as an influence. I assume, from your post, that you're a Killswitch fan. There is no Killswitch without The Gallery.

    Really, though, whatever. Just listen to Dark Tranquillity. You can't go wrong. All you will do is win.
     
  11. Maxim1110

    Maxim1110 Member

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    I'll try telling you something about The Gallery in addition to stizzle's great post then, as The Mind's I and Skydancer aren't exactly my favourites either.

    The Gallery, though, is different. It is more melodic, and has some very deep emotion in some parts of it. It is, like Skydancer and The Mind's I, a more 'traditional' metal album. It's really audible that they mixed some brutal death metal with melodic heavy metal such as Iron Maiden. But in another way it isn't. The guitar in the title track are reminiscent of jazz, especially in the intro, and the use of female vocals add an extra dimension to its feel and emotion. It gives songs such as The Gallery and Of Melancholy Burning this extra emotion and makes it slightly feel like gothic metal.

    Mikael's vocals are also full of passion and emotion. Listen closely to some of the vocal lines which appear later on in the opener Punish My Heaven, the really passionate screams. That song also has some technical guitar work and beautiful solo's. The clean intro and emotional vocals in Lethe also give me goosebumps, as do those in Edenspring.

    So like stizzle said: Just listen to Dark Tranquillity. You can't go wrong. All you will do is win.
     
  12. Erik Erna

    Erik Erna Sheriff Of T.S.G

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    Am I the only one here completely in love with The Mind's I?
     
  13. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    I have nothing against The Mind's I. In fact, that album was very important to me at one time in my life.

    It has a consistency to it that I'm almost tempted to call "flatness." Think about a song like "Tongues." The melody in the intro is so beautiful, but the pitch separation between the lead and rhythm guitars is so slight that you get this powerful, chaotic mix. It's an interesting effect, but the leads don't really "pop." The album is filled with amazing riffs, but you have to really dig in to hear them, else they blend in. So much of the album is at one consistent volume level that nothing really jumps out at you. It's good for what it is, but I think that as time went by they got better at writing exciting songs. The Mind's I also seems to occupy one musical space, at a fairly consistent tempo.

    That said, that album has some of the most amazing sonic textures. I love the way they used to do their clean guitar work. If you think of the clean guitar work in "Inside the Particle Storm" or "Mundane and the Magic", it has a bit of a jazzy shimmer to it. It's lovely, but quiet moments like in "Constant" and "Tidal Tantrum" have this torturous depth to them. Timbre is hard to describe, so I'll just say that it's like mix of rust, electricity, and magic. If you can hear what I'm talking about, great; if not, fuck it.

    It also has some stand out tracks. "Insanity's Crescendo" being the obvious choice.

    Okay, in the midst of writing that I plugged "The Mind's I" into Wikipedia. I may be late on discovering this, but holy-fucking-shit the default result is this book. Aside from having the same title, the book is all about the human mind and self. Several of the essays are from a computer science standpoint (as essay be the eminent British genius, Alan Turing, for example). A bit of a biological/machine connection, which seems to be a big theme in TMI. Awesomely, there's also an essay entitled "Fiction."

    Beyond that, several essays are by Argentinian Jorge Luis Borges. If, as all of the evidence suggests, Mikael had his hands on a copy of this book, he may have read Borges. If he read Borges, there's a good chance that he also read Federico Garcia Lorca (who was heavily influenced by Borges). This supports my theory that We Are the Void, if not other albums, are partially inspired by Lorca! I will write more at a later date, but I have a body of evidence to make the case. Inductively, but what else do I have?
     
  14. Erik Erna

    Erik Erna Sheriff Of T.S.G

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    I think I liked it for a simple reason, it was a more thrashy type album. I thought their style blended it perfectly. I honestly think I feel in love with this album quicker (started with Haven) than any other album. Perhaps, it was just an easier album to get into. Then, you always seem to have the soft spot for an album you REALLY liked first from a band. Usually speaking anyway.
     
  15. Maxim1110

    Maxim1110 Member

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    Yeah that's true. I don't have anything against The Mind's I, or Skydancer for that sake, either. They're absolutely great albums and the level is high above average, but I simply think the rest is better than that, but reading stizzle's post, I might have to give it another spin and listen closely.
     
  16. Valorin

    Valorin New Metal Member

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    I think the working backwards thing is a good idea. Erik, you're not alone, I think The Mind's I was by far their best album. Some off my favourite DT songs didn't even make the album proper (Razorfever and Shadowlit Facade). Dissolution Factor Red, Scythe Rage and Roses as well as Zodijackyl Light rock my world. Their only albums I never really got into are Skydancer and Projector.
     
  17. Naglfar

    Naglfar As Naglfar devours us all

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    Like a lot of people suggested, you should go backwards. That being said...

    Most people will tell you that their best album is The Gallery. I am one of those people. It's also a very different era of Dark Tranquility and sounds completely different from WATV. So if you like WATV, my suggestion would be to listen to them in this order:

    1.WATV
    2.Fiction
    3.The Gallery
    4.Haven

    After that, what you listen to next depends on what kind of sound you want to explore. If Fiction / WATV were your cup of tea, you want to go ahead and get Character and Damage Done. If The Gallery speaks to you, you want to grab Skydancer / Chaos and Eternal Night LP and the Mind's I. My least favorite DT album is Projector... but one of my favorite DT songs, Nether Novas, is on that album.

    Like I said, just start with those first four I mentioned, and then work your way through the discography. Their earlier stuff is thrashy-er, and the Gallery is a very brutal album. But it says a lot about how good the band has always been that people think one of their earlier albums is their best albums. You've heard WATV, so you know that's a pretty big claim!
     
  18. Defiance

    Defiance I vårens ljusa kvällar

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    No, I love it! I feel it's much more "constant" than The Gallery, and does feel like a natural progression for the band. But as stizzle said, the album is really flat: All of thre instruments sound the same, so you really have to pay attention so that one of them really stands out.

    It's ironic, but I think that the deluxe editions released by CM sound much, much worse than the originals. But I guess "deluxe" doesn't mean remastered.

    Really, Borges? I haven't read much of him, but will do so. Now that you mention it, the resemblance is obvious.

    Which is the first author of The Mind's I? Why, Borges of course.

    _ _ _

    Borges and I
    by Jorge Luis Borges
    It is to that other one, to Borges, that things happen. I walk through Buenos Aires and I pause, one could say mechanically, to gaze at a vestibule’s arch and its inner door; of Borges I receive news in the mail and I see his name in a list of professors or some biographical dictionary. I like hourglasses, maps, eighteenth-century typefaces, etymologies, the taste of coffee and the prose of Stevenson; the other shares these preferences, but in a vain kind of way that turns them into attributes of an actor. It would be an exaggeration to claim that our relationship is hostile; I live, I let myself live so that Borges may write his literature, and this literature justifies me. It poses no great difficulty for me to admit that he has put together some decent passages, yet these passages cannot save me, perhaps because whatsoever is good does not belong to anyone, not even to the other, but to language and tradition. In any case, I am destined to lose all that I am, definitively, and only fleeting moments of myself will be able to live on in the other. Little by little, I continue ceding to him everything, even though I am aware of his perverse tendency to falsify and magnify.

    Spinoza understood that all things strive to persevere being; the stone wishes to be eternally a stone and the tiger a tiger. I will endure in Borges, not in myself (if it is that I am someone), but I recognise myself less in his books than in those of many others, or in the well-worn strum of a guitar. Years ago I tried to free myself from him by moving on from the mythologies of the slums to games with time and infinity, but those games are now Borges’ and I will have to conceive of other things. In this way, my life is a running away and I lose everything and everything is turned over to oblivion, or to the other.

    I do not know which of us is writing this piece.

    Borges y Yo
    por Jorge Luis Borges​

    Al otro, a Borges, es a quien le ocurren las cosas. Yo camino por Buenos Aires y me demoro, acaso ya mecánicamente, para mirar el arco de un zaguán y la puerta cancel; de Borges tengo noticias por el correo y veo su nombre en una terna de profesores o en un diccionario biográfico. Me gustan los relojes de arena, los mapas, la tipografía del siglo XVII, las etimologías, el sabor del café y la prosa de Stevenson; el otro comparte esas preferencias, pero de un modo vanidoso que las convierte en atributos de un actor. Sería exagerado afirmar que nuestra relación es hostil; yo vivo, yo me dejo vivir para que Borges pueda tramar su literatura y esa literatura me justifica. Nada me cuesta confesar que ha logrado ciertas páginas válidas, pero esas páginas no me pueden salvar, quizá porque lo bueno ya no es de nadie, ni siquiera del otro, sino del lenguaje o la tradición. Por lo demás, yo estoy destinado a perderme, definitivamente, y sólo algún instante de mí podrá sobrevivir en el otro. Poco a poco voy cediéndole todo, aunque me consta su perversa costumbre de falsear y magnificar. Spinoza entendió que todas las cosas quieren perseverar en su ser; la piedra eternamente quiere ser piedra y el tigre un tigre. Yo he de quedar en Borges, no en mí (si es que alguien soy), pero me reconozco menos en sus libros que en muchos otros o que en el laborioso rasgueo de una guitarra. Hace años yo traté de librarme de él y pasé de las mitologías del arrabal a los juegos con el tiempo y con lo infinito, pero esos juegos son de Borges ahora y tendré que idear otras cosas. Así mi vida es una fuga y todo lo pierdo y todo es del olvido, o del otro.

    No sé cuál de los dos escribe esta página.

    _ _ _


    Pure Argentinian genius.
     
  19. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    It appears that in my recent move I have left behind my copy of Lorca's collected poems. Strange, since it has otherwise not left my bedside in nearly ten years. When I find it, I will offer some transcriptions to support my theory of a connection to WAtV (including one obvious song-title reference) in a new thread.

    @Defiance: If you're not familiar with Lorca, you should be. He has long been my favorite poet. He is a verbal surrealist, with poems comprised largely of impossible images swirling around a suggested plot or theme, not unlike like a certain Swede. I am only familiar with his work through translation, though you may have the luxury of enjoying it in the original language. In translation, some of the sentences come across as cumbersome and overbearing: "y el niño que enterraron esta mañana lloraba tanto/que hubo necesidad de llamar a los perros para que callase" is translated with the phrase "it was necessary that they," which is close to the original, but sounds simpler with "they had to." His forceful poetic voice reads like DT sounds. The source of that quote, and your entry to the world of the poet (assuming you are unfamiliar), will be this, written during the poet's early 20th century academic visit to New York.

    BTW, see if you can spot the DT song title in that poem. It's a track on WAtV. The words are out of order, but share a line. The title is in English, so you may have to do some on-the-fly translation to catch the two back-to-back words that make a DT song title. If you don't see it, all will be revealed soon.
     
  20. Defiance

    Defiance I vårens ljusa kvällar

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    Hahaha OK, thanks, I'll try to discover it. But of course I know Lorca, yet, just like with Borges, I haven't read all of his works.

    I also like Cortázar, have you read Rayuela?

    - - -

    Julio Cortázar
    Rayuela, capítulo 68
    *
    ***Apenas él le amalaba el noema, a ella se le agolpaba el clémiso y caían en hidromurias, en salvajes ambonios, en sustalos exasperantes. Cada vez que él procuraba relamar las incopelusas, se enredaba en un grimado quejumbroso y tenía que envulsionarse de cara al nóvalo, sintiendo cómo poco a poco las arnillas se espejunaban, se iban apeltronando, reduplimiendo, hasta quedar tendido como el trimalciato de ergomanina al que se le han dejado caer unas fílulas de cariaconcia. Y sin embargo era apenas el principio, porque en un momento dado ella se tordulaba los hurgalios, consintiendo en que él aproximara suavemente su orfelunios. Apenas se entreplumaban, algo como un ulucordio los encrestoriaba, los extrayuxtaba y paramovía, de pronto era el clinón, las esterfurosa convulcante de las mátricas, la jadehollante embocapluvia del orgumio, los esproemios del merpasmo en una sobrehumítica agopausa. ¡Evohé! ¡Evohé! Volposados en la cresta del murelio, se sentía balparamar, perlinos y márulos. Temblaba el troc, se vencían las marioplumas, y todo se resolviraba en un profundo pínice, en niolamas de argutendidas gasas, en carinias casi crueles que los ordopenaban hasta el límite de las gunfias.

    - - -

    No idea how this was translated, since it's not really Spanish. Cortázar took the beginning of some words and put them at the end, or backwards. The scene is basically a description of a sexual intercourse.

    Oh and I'm sorry you lost your book, hopefully you'll find it.

    EDIT: Not certain of which part it is.

    Dream Oblivion? "No duerme nadie, nadie"? "Pero no hay olvido, ni sueño"?

    "Grandest Accusation"? "Hay un muerto en el cementerio más lejano".

    I love this part of the previously mentioned song:

    You chose rejection over thoughts of incite
    You take action from focus on intents
    Brace for impact,
    Now wait here for the fall
     

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