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Discussion in 'In Flames' started by eochaid, Nov 26, 2016.
I've never read or watched Berserk, but that's sad news at only 54.
Yes. He was too young. Berserk is great. Thought the old series are better.
So I just got done with the Freeza saga in Japanese. I had forgotten how long the fight with Freeza stretches out for. It goes on forever.
Freeza: Planet will explode in 5 minutes
*ten episodes later*
Freeza: Two minutes until the planet explodes
Perhaps the concept of minutes is just different for him, I don't know.
I'd also forgotten how much bad filler there is during this saga. Pretty much all of Bulma's stuff.
I'm curious as to why, when the Dragon Balls wished back everyone Freeza had killed and transported them to Earth, the henchmen Freeza killed on Namek were not revived. I guess the Dragon somehow knew not to include them? I also don't understand why Ginyu the frog was allowed to continue living. He had already shown once he can apparently change bodies even when he's a frog, so what is to stop him doing it again? Why doesn't he do it again?
Oh, and Tenshinhan, Yamucha and Chaotzu defeating the Ginyu Force... yeah, sure. Apparently their powers have roughly increased 50x, if not more, from only 6 days training with Kaio. That's some gains. I'm also not sure how Piccolo suddenly has like, a 1,000,000 power level from even less training and fusing with Nail, who was at about 42,000 max.
Well whatever, I guess DBZ wasn't created to be thought about with any complexity.
Gohan's constantly yelling "FATHER" is Japanese was really, really annoying. His voice in general really grated against my ears. The American version sounds more like a 12 year old than a 5 year old, but way less irritating. Krillin dying was sadder, mainly because the Japanese VA is far better than the American VA. Krillin isn't treated like a joke in the Japanese version, whereas in the American version he's a total dork.
Final thought, the 'gets hit by ki blast, lots of smoke, smoke reveals to reveal person is fine, attacker has shocked face' trope is off the scale in this saga. It literally happens once per episode, sometimes more. At some point it just becomes really stupid, especially when it is characters who can sense ki and would know their attack hadn't done any damage.
At that point, Toriyama was exhausted from work. So he took some time as vacation. That's the reason as to why the fight with Freeza looks weirdly long. The had to lengthen it due to Toeiyama's break.
And I guess that also explains all the inconsistencies during that saga.
About Piccolo... I'm not sure. Apparently, the result of his fusion, for some reason, multiplies instead of adding his power.
I knew the filler was there to let the manga catch up, but I didn't realise Toriyama took a break during the Freeza arc. A lot of the filler Toei added in didn't make much sense.
Piccolo's boost in power was ridiculous, but I guess they had to at least try and keep some of the non-Saiyans useful. I mean, Goku started the Saiyan saga with a power level < 1000 and ended the Freeza saga with something like 15,000,000 power level Toriyama probably just shouldn't have assigned numbers to it.
I had forgotten how much of a total scumbag Vegeta is kind of hilarious that he becomes one of the 'heroes', considering even during the Freeza saga he murders a bunch of Nameks in cold blood and then laughs when they aren't revived, because technically he wasn't one of Freeza's soldiers by that point.
Precisely, what you mentioned about Freeza pointing out the time that was left until the destruction of the planet, two times, was one of the main fillers of the show.
And yes. That's the point where everything stopped making much sense. Piccolo's boost, that didn't really changed anything, was a sign that not everything was ok. From that point on, every jump in power becomes more and more ridiculous and less logical.
Now, everyone can be a Super Saiyan. And they can destroy an entire planet just by farting but they prefer to destroy a bunch of rocks in every fight.
And Vegeta's redemption is just stupid. He never said sorry about the lives that he has taken. But that's ok for everyone else
Lol yeah, I can understand it from Goku since Goku is an idiot and only cares about being able to fight Vegeta... but it doesn't make sense for the others. Especially Bulma - Vegeta was responsible for most of her friends dying during the Saiyan saga - and everyone is apparently cool with them being together too. I mean, by the end they're a good couple, but... it's kind of hard for any decent person to overlook all of the really evil stuff Vegeta did.
Another thing I didn't understand - what happened to Goku when Freeza smashed him into the ground and he disappeared from like, half an episode? Gohan suddenly says he can't feel Goku's ki any more. He goes back out and ends up getting smacked around by Freeza for a while before Goku finally re-emerges completely unscathed. WTF was he doing? Did he take a nap?
Also why didn't Freeza just fly up into space and destroy Namek like he did Planet Vegeta? Goku would have let him get away because Goku is a fucking idiot, so it would have been an easy way to end things.
I think that was part of the fillers. But I'm not sure.
Freeza doesn't fly into space for the same reason that Cell doesn't smash the planet with his first hit. Lack of logic.
The amount of power that they achieve after Goku becomes a Super is just insane and breaks any coherence that the series could have had. Just a bunch of guys who could destroy the earth just by farting by they decide to not do that when fighting at full strength.
Seeing it in perspective, the Super Saiyan thing was the wrist possible decision.
Whilst I was watching the Freeza saga I actually thought it would have been cool for the fight to end after Goku hit Freeza with the Genki Dama. Piccolo, Krillin and Gohan all helped contribute to distracting Freeza, letting Goku create and execute the Genki Dama. Freeza still looks like a badass who just got distracted and beaten by a technique which literally had to use the lifeforce of creatures all around the universe to finally defeat him. In a lot of ways it would have been the perfect end to Freeza. It also would have made his return with King Cold much more plausible, as I'd accept him surviving that more than surviving Goku's blast and also somehow surviving the explosion of Namek. To me that was just ridiculous, but I could buy him barely surviving the Genki Dama.
It would also have made his return a lot more impactful as Goku wasn't able to defeat Freeza by himself, and would have made Trunks seem even more powerful if he had shown up and still destroyed Freeza (without Super Saiyan transformation).
Indeed. But, sadly, this saga is the start of a lot of bad decisions.
I just remembered this happening. I was a nice surprise.
I've seen that picture before, what is the context?
That's the data sheet from one of the villains from Bleach. All the characters have this kind of bio. Being Ulquiorra the one with this taste in metal music.
I bought The Girl Who Leapt Through Time on Blu Ray today after seeing it in a second hand shop for £4, I assume you've already seen it?
Yes. A few times. Amazing movie too. Also, Summer Wars is a must see. And I'm willing to watch belle. Let's hope that it doesn't get much time to be premiered here in Europe.
The guy is a genius.
I'm getting closer to the end of DBZ, finally. Currently at the point where Bibidi has reawakened Majin Buu and Vegeta is Majin branded as well.
Two things though. Firstly, Kaioshin seems to be a total waste of a character. He is supposed to be some kind of legendary God and leaves Piccolo in such awe that Piccolo refuses to even fight him. Then later on it turns out Kaioshin is not only far weaker than Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and even Dabura, but seems to have no idea about what has actually been going on in this universe he is supposed to be responsible for. He is completely useless when it comes to stopping Buu from emerging and panics and yells at Gohan that they should run away when it does happen. What kind of character is this? It's not like I'm watching the dub and he's being misrepresented by the translation either - I'm watching the original subtitled Japanese version.
Secondly, what exactly does being under Bibidi's control entail exactly? The person gets a power boost, OK, but seems to be able to defy Bibidi at will? Both Dabura and Vegeta completely ignore him when his orders don't suit their purpose.
Anyway, the Saiyaman saga gets a lot of hate but I thought it was kind of fun and made a change from DBZ's usual story of "increasingly stronger villains appear, the heroes fail initially but ultimately get stronger and win".
At that point, nothing made sense. It is Toeiyama running out of ideas and improvising. There are few good ideas hidden behind that mess.
Buu is such a weird character design. Like a fat pink baby in a diaper. I guess it was supposed to be some kind of swerve that the audience was expecting this evil, demonic monster and instead we get some obese freak that sounds mentally challenged. I know he changes eventually but it's still really strange.
I got the DBZ movie collection/TV specials blu ray today, so I think I've pretty much got all of the original Z & GT media on physical media now. At some point I shoud also pick up the original Dragon Ball as I've never seen it.
Oh, I've also got one of the Ab Groupe/Big Green dub of the third Z movie (I think). It's notable for just being terrible. Also it was released while the Funimation/Ocean dubs were being shown on Cartoon Network in the UK. So anybody buying this DVD at the time would have been very confused as to what the fuck was going on.
No words needed. The Funimation/Ocean dubs were far from perfect, but the Big Green dub is more like a parody/joke.
My daughter has started watching the original DB series in Galician (our regional language). I prefer this to DBZ. And, don't get me wrong. I loved all the thing about the saiyans and supersaiyans (in Spain, Space Warriors and Superwarrior) but then, after everyone started being a super saiyan (the conditions were no more needed) I felt that it was not being faithful to its own mythology.
Still, DB is really cool. Watch it. I have the links but only with dubs and subtitles for the different spanish languages. Also, I'm not sure if that exists, try to find an uncensored version of the series. Apparently, the sight of Goku discovering that girls don't have a dick was too much for our sensibillities.
The Blu-Ray editions are probably uncut, but I'd have to check before buying!