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Discussion in 'GMD Social Forum' started by False Joe, Jan 9, 2009.
in before this turns into the Proposition 8 thread Part 2
Christianity does have things it is pretty clear on, and the Bible makes a lot of statements that are not hard to understand. I think where people go wrong within Christianity is to rely on being told what they should believe, rather than investigating it for themselves.
Correct. Sides either are in harmony or disharmony with truth to varying degrees. So what's your point?
Isn't that the entire point of the bible?
"If you're a christian, you're a good person. Look what good you can do. But if you don't behave you're going to burn for fucking eternity. Somehow. Despite the lack of nerve endings"
Truth = the way things actually are.
Truth doesn't govern morality.
No. The point, from my perspective, is that the Bible is God's communication to man about his existence, and about how he wants to be in a relationship with us. That we created in a relationship with him, but were given free will and have thus gone astray. And that he made a way for us to get back into a relationship with him while on earth, which will one day be much closer to the original intent.
The whole, "I am a Christian and therefore a better person than you" is a fallacy which, unfortunately, even some Christians seem to start believing.
What does that mean?
Morality comes from God.
You're talking about the same all-powerful God who couldn't be bothered to control his power and avoid turning what's his fuck's wife into a pillar of fucking salt when he blasted Sodom and Gomorrah off the map, right?
EDIT: Also, you mentioned free will in an earlier post. Don't make me fucking laugh. God is all knowing. He knew, when he created the world, that you would worship Him and I wouldn't believe he existed. He knew. He knows everything! Free will is totally incompatible with an all-powerful, all-knowing god.
Not sure what that has to do with anything. Where does it say that he "couldn't be bothered to control his power"?
So you're saying God should have made a world of robots that just do what he tells them? What is the point of that?
At a christian saying "What's the point" of something.
He's all powerful. He can do anything. He could have controlled his power, but he didn't.
And you obviously didn't understand my second point. If God created us, and he is all knowing, then he knows everything about us. He knew you would be a Christian, and he knew I would be an atheist, even if the last time he had a hand in our creation was the dawn of time. There is no way an all knowing God could have created a world with free will.
Yet he did.
EDIT: I am not sure why it seems so inconceivable that an all knowing God would or could create beings with free will.
EDIT2: I don't understand why you think Lot's wife was changed as a result of God not being able to control his power. Can you explain that?
Looks like you answered your own questions.
Being threatened with eternal punishment for not believing some unverifiable myth is exactly why it's unhealthy to believe in said myth. Since you yourself acknowledge this threat, I trust you will agree that it's not actually a "misconception".
Now there's a misconception: that it's the "wrong choice" to not believe any of the thousands of equally baseless religions and myths that humans have conceived (of which Christianity is only one) - not to mention the infinite number of myths that could be conceived. If you can't explain what sets Christianity above all that other stuff, then you have no reason to suggest that there is "real stuff to worry about" that requires the guidance of the Bible.
No, but rejecting religion is in fact making a choice. It's choosing not to believe that unfounded myths will have a serious impact on one's life. Sounds like a wise choice to me.
Then apparently you've been oblivious to the last hundred or so religious discussions that we've had here, since obviously the problem is that if he's all-knowing, then he already knows whether a person will go to Heaven or Hell before the person is even born.
So you believe...
So basically there is no point of said judgment at all.
Yeah man those newborn babies are just fucking trouble-makers damned to hell. Original sin is fucking stupid.
Actually I think there was one on free will that I don't think I read or commented in, at least not much. Most of the discussions I have been in have not dealt a lot with free will, though it has entered in.
But what does it prove that God knows how it will all go down?
My previous post answers your question: