This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Opeth is Self Indulgent?

Discussion in 'Opeth (Archived)' started by Ozzloaf, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. Ozzloaf

    Ozzloaf Art Geek

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I found this RIDICULOUS article on Yahoo about the most self indulgent albums in rock history. Almost all of the bands are prog bands.

    Link to Article

    I post it here because Opeth could fit for almost all of the criteria:

    1. Lyrics with lots of medieval words, such as tempest, screed, manor, shire, cloister, parchment, and pilgrimage.
    I can't think of any but their probably are.

    2. Songs that run more than ten minutes on at least half the album.
    Yep!

    3. Covers that look like a Harry Potter book or a Dungeons and Dragons game.
    I wouldn't say that for any of their covers... Weirdly, none of the albums that they mention are that way either.

    4. Packaging that includes two or three discs.
    True for the special editions of all of the albums that are Still Life through Watershed.

    5. Tracks that feature at least one keyboard solo.
    On Burden and The Lotus Eater, yes.

    Actually most of my all time favorite bands fit this criteria... hahaha. I think that self indulgent is MUCH better than just playing shit for other people.

    Jake

    p.s. I'm deliriously tired and I'll probably regret posting this in the morning...
     
  2. Detective Clarence Beauregard

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,421
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago
    Keyboard solos are awesome. Have you ever heard Symphony X? They put Dream Theater's wankiness-filled solos to shame!
     
  3. Wander

    Wander 10+2=6

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Finland
    Opeth doesn't fit it perfectly, but yeah, some things could be considered to be self indulgeng... But so what?! It's awesome!

    Symphony X - The Odyssey fits the description pretty well. But hell, the keyboard solos are indeed aweosme there.
     
  4. Detective Clarence Beauregard

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,421
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago
    I like keyboard solos if they can add to the overall feeling and emotion of the music, instead of making it one big "look at me, I can play 64th notes at crazy speeds" event just so everyone can be like "wow, that guy can play FAST!" kind of a deal. Same thing with guitar solos, or any "solos," really. Opeth has always had feeling in their solos, which is why their music stands out to me. I used to think technical prowess was the key to music, but then I grew up and truly analyzed how it made me FEEL. And, while entirely subjective, I believe that feeling and emotion is the real key to understanding music.
     
  5. Bluegreen

    Bluegreen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Gothenburg
    Self-indulgence doesnt necessarily need to be something bad. In the case with Opeth, I think their self-indulgence (because yes, they probably have some) makes them ambitious. And that's only good for the music. Pretention isn't always something bad; it makes them push themselves to do better things, push the limits, experiment, write exceptional music, not settling with mediocre accessible songs that you'll get tired of in five minutes.
     
  6. mexicola

    mexicola Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Sweden
    I never understood the outright hatred some people have for prog.
     
  7. Kazraine

    Kazraine New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    hhhmmmm, you can play 30 guitar solos in a song... that's fine... but add a single keyboard solo to A track?! o_O Self indulgent wizard hat wearing toss... :erk::erk::erk:
     
  8. ometh

    ometh Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    all you've done is outline some really tenuous parallels with "self-indulgent" music... doesn't mean anything!!!
     
  9. Echolipse

    Echolipse Opethian

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Lakeland, Florida
    Thank you, finally someone who has the same feeling as I do. I used to be totally into this band from Tampa Bay called Crossbreed. They have decent music, but i could never really get any FEELING from them.

    Discovered Opeth through a gamer friend and I felt the feeling almost instantly. People think I love the music for the growling and heaviness alone, but it's the feeling that drives me.
     
  10. The Porcelain Eater

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I have the same feeling. It's the reason why I don't really like bands like Dream Theater. They might be really technical and masters on their instruments, but to me they just sound mechanical and emotionally flat when compared to bands like Opeth or Katatonia.
     
  11. Iki-ilkkuja

    Iki-ilkkuja Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Turku, Finland
    Keyboard solos are awesome, if not talking about some DT-ish cheesy midi sounds.
     
  12. RoadKing

    RoadKing The Central Scrutinizer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Well, they've sounded like that since Kevin Moore left, anyway. At the time, I didn't fully realize or appreciate how important he was to their identity and how much they'd miss him when he left!

    Yes, Opeth are self-indulgent, and THANK GOD they are! The moment they start concentrating on writing music for anyone else is the moment they've lost it and have officially sold out!

    IMO, "self-indulgent" is the only way to approach creating any kind of art. If you're not writing/creating from your own most personal desires, emotions and experiences, how the hell can your art come across as anything BUT contrived and phony?!

    Ya hear that, Mike? Indulge away, bro, and let us all reap the rewards! :headbang::kickass:
     
  13. Echolipse

    Echolipse Opethian

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Lakeland, Florida
    I used to be for bands who wrote for the fans, but truthfully, I believe that can eventually come to an end. That end is when you have nothing else to write about.

    Thank God for self-indulgence. Do your thing Mike, do your thing. I'll see you in March.
     
  14. ingenkommentar

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Sweden
    Roadking, exactly, Jordan Rudess has mad skills but no feeling. His solos mostly suck.
     
  15. Ozzloaf

    Ozzloaf Art Geek

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
  16. StealerAG

    StealerAG Darkness reared its head

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ginosa (TA), ITALY
    In music you have to do YOUR stuff.

    If you have to collaborate with someone,be sure that you share at least part of its tastes.

    that's it.
     
  17. Silent Dance With Death

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2008
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Self-indulgence and confidence are two different things. If you know you're a good musician and want to make music that reflects, knock yourself out. If people don't like it they can simply not listen.

    Which is where bands like Dream Theater often get knocked. Everyone talks about how their music is technically proficient but lacking feeling. I disagree with this, but nobody's forcing you to listen to Dream Theater.
     
  18. Para Bellum

    Para Bellum Frostbitten

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    A little self indulgence never hurt anyone... ;)
     
  19. Cognitive Intercourse

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ft Worth, TX
    These bands are "self indulgent" because they CAN be. I'd much rather listen to bands that can actually play their instruments and incorporate different elements into their songs such as changes in time signatures, and key changes then bands that know four chords and sound like they're singing with marbles in their mouths.
     
  20. Crepuscularia

    Crepuscularia Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I think a song becomes self-indulgent when you have sections that clearly are more about the band showing off their technical/compositional prowess than they are about serving the actual SONG. One of the reasons I'm so impressed with Opeth is that they consistently write long songs that give you the feeling that every single note HAD to be there.
     

Share This Page