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Discussion in 'Opeth (Archived)' started by Seance, Aug 3, 2007.
LOL, eize yetzur
Nice first post! Welcome!
I will say that, on the whole, most people are listening in more noisy environments than ever, and that really dynamic stuff can be a pain in the ass to manage in instances like that (driving in the car; played in stores, restaurants, etc.; on headphones/earbuds (ugh) on trains, subways, while mowing the lawn, etc.). Radio stations already squash their broadcasts, too. However, I have always felt that dynamic control that compensates for listening environment ought to be something that consumers deal with.
For example, my Home Theater receiver has "Night Mode", which is essentially a compressor that you use so as not to freak out the neighbors when the bombs start going off in your previously quiet flick (which you cranked cuz the dialogue was mixed sort of low...). I've never used it, but it's there. Home listening and portable devices ought to come with a similar sort of compressor, and that way the end user can make the final decision about how much to squeeze the dynamic range, much like "Tone" controls.
Anybody know for sure about the vinyl Opeth records and whether they too suffer from the loudness war and its wave cutting side effects?
I could try to make a recording of the LP on my computer and look at it. I just need a program, anyone that can recommend a free easy program?
Audacity should be able to do it. Free and works for Windows, Linux and Mac.
Does it really matter that much what music sounds like? Isn't it more about what it is and the whole art of composition?
the quality of its presentation through the medium can be improved upon. when the presentation is butchered, you aren't hearing what the music "is"
Even in the worst produced demo you can still hear the actual ideas, which are the only really important part of music. Anything to do with sound quality is irrelevant to the actual music. Does the quality of a book's contents increase when the words are printed with higher quality ink?
If opeth's albums were all produced like Ulver's "Natten's Madrigal," my enjoyment of them would be significantly decreased. Saying production doesn't matter is like saying color doesn't matter when talking about paintings.
sound quality and production is fully relevant to music. music is sound. production affects how it sounds and how you hear it. i don't care if the ideas are "there". if they aren't being expressed properly, what's the point in listening to the album? if something is supposed to have shitty, grainy static cymbal hits, or is supposed to be boring or have some kind of other annoying or distracting characteristic, then it's a bad idea anyway
Nattens Madrigal's production was perfect for the music iyam. It complimented the raw feeling and minimalism that it was trying to portray. However, I think that certain production methods should only be used for certain types of music.
I was definitely not saying Natten's Madrigal's production sucked. I like that album, but if Opeth albums had the same production I would have a hard time enjoying them. So, agreed ;o
I see music as being enjoyable on two levels -
1. on a visceral or physical level, this is what people mean when they talk about being able to feel the music
2. enjoyment of ideas represented by and communicated through music
What I meant was I see only the second as relevant. To the extent that production can affect the enjoyment of ideas, or that production forms part of the music, as could be argued for ulver or darkthrone, sure it's important and i don't dispute that.
Music, when played, is simply disturbance of molecules with a certain amplitude and frequency which we happen to be able to hear because we have ears, and because of this we can interpret ideas the composer has had. Since the invention of music notation we have been able to interpret it by reading. On another planet aliens might be able to smell it, or taste it - the concept and outcome is no different. Music, through the properties of sound, also happens to create physical sensations in our body - sounds can be described as pleasant or unpleasant. What i'm saying is that the end product, our understanding and interpretation of what is being played, remains unaffected by production, although our visceral enjoyment might be.
wankerness: the painting example isn't the same thing. Colors are usually part of a painting's composition and are very important.
I don't disagree with you. My point is that production should only ever be utilized to enhance or alter the sound of music as the artist sees fit.
What we are discussing is production altering the sound of music or actually altering the ideas themselves if/when dynamics are reduced/eliminated in the name of compression for non-musical reasons. The fact that this can result in a lower 'visceral enjoyment' is, to me, a massive waste. It may not affect the ideas of or behind the music, but it effects your enjoyment of listening to the album - the only practical way of hearing the music. If you don't enjoy listening to it, you won't. It's a shame.
And i'm saying it's not important, so yes, you do disagree with me.
I made a recording of TGG from LP on my computer to see if the LP have the same "wave cutting" as the cd.
There is no cutting on the LP.
I have made some pictures of the track but I don't know how to show them on the page.
Can I send the pictures to anyone that will put them on here?