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Opeth's music has fallen victim to the Loudness War

Discussion in 'Opeth (Archived)' started by Seance, Aug 3, 2007.

  1. opeth fan

    opeth fan Member

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    You don't really need the power of weed, the power of the mind works
    listen to Liszt and you might see color, perhaps more :)
    Thoughtforms
     
  2. roadtonowhere08

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    That is what the rest of the forum is about. Care to post some thoughtforms on the wavforms perhaps?
     
  3. L0bster

    L0bster OneTwo!

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    One thing I've learned from working with sound for the past five years is that you do not watch sound, you listen. Watching is good for precise editing and cutting, but come on, in this case just chill and listen. Ghost Reveries was mastered in Cutting Room here in sthlm by Thomas Edeberger with Jens&Opeth, and that goes for the record in any format. The vinyl has the same compressed master, there was no evil-cd-press-company-master that killed frequenses. The difference between those two pictures is related to his ways of recording the sound onto his computer, not different dynamic content in the song. Sorry.
     
  4. roadtonowhere08

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    They may have the same master, but the CD was dynamically compressed much more than the vinyl. The differences are obvious. The vinyl has no flatlining going on like the CD. Once they are flatlined, there is nothing you can do to get them back. Now if he posted a quiet wavform with all the peaks compressed like on the CD, I'd 100% agree with you. But they aren't, and the differences are obvious.

    EDIT:

    Here is what I am talking about...

    [​IMG]

    This is a direct CD rip that has been attenuated by 6db.

    And here is the vinyl rip:

    [​IMG]

    Does the CD wavform look anything like the vinyl wavform? Like I said before, the vinyl retains those peaks while the CD compresses them. There is NO way to get them back.
     
  5. metalhead416

    metalhead416 New Metal Member

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    yes it is obvious waht ure sayin here roadtonowhere...!!!.....u haev to agree with loabster....this is not a suepr crappy record...GR soudns realy relaly good actually...!!!!.....u can hear everythign perfectly fine.....i relaly dont see what the problem is here...mayeb we are over analyzing somethign ...that is not even there to begin with...!!!!!.......PEAC EOUT
     
  6. opeth fan

    opeth fan Member

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    yes of course I would thank-you but first I need to learn how to use IMG tags
     
  7. Towedwart

    Towedwart I will have a apple

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    So, when people rip Opeth CDs onto their computer at rates of 128 kbps, that makes even more shitty, right? Cutting out even more range?
     
  8. roadtonowhere08

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    I am not saying that the record sucks at all in any aspect. In fact, it is probably their most well-rounded record in terms of overall sound quality. I am saying that in my opinion, Opeth deserves the absolute best in terms of mastering because their music is friggin' great. If they sucked, like a lot metal of bands do, I would not even care and would not have posted in this thread. There are many bands where I do not care if their music is shot to pieces by bad production, Opeth is not one of them.

    For the record, I can hear the compression on their albums. Their music is very dynamic, but parts that shoud be more dynamic are compresed, and the wavforms show that. There are many albums that are not compressed and they blow me away with dynamics. All one has to do is turn up the volume.

    Try the Telarc released Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture. THAT is dynamic. Or better yet, get your hands on a few MFSL and DCC released rock albums like Queensruche's Empire. Or try Virgin Black's Elegant... and Dying. None of them are compressed and it really shows. If you have a good set of speakers and a beefy amp, you will hear the difference.


    Towedwart: Yes and no. Switch between the mp3 and the .wav or .flac and you will hear the difference in the cymbals and bass resolution and depth. The overall dynamics will not change a lot, but the sound quality will.
     
  9. el_serpiente

    el_serpiente Member

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    Oh yes. That is a superb piece of music. Try this recording. That is heavy:headbang:

    Generally classic music does not compress the dynamics. Actually cd can have quite a high quality but a lot of cd does sound like crap (even the music on them :lol: ).

    I just wished that Opeth would have the best production as it would fit to their music. The production on GR is in fact quite good so why the extra compression?

    @soundave - I'm not really in to Iron Maiden so I haven't heard "A Matter of Life and Death".
     
  10. soundave

    soundave Member

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    You ought to just check it out to hear what the production sounds like. It's interesting.
     
  11. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    What do you mean by 'interesting' soundave? I've yet to hear that album..
     
  12. tung

    tung madcap bovine silliness

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    The LP versions are probably very often created from the same 2-track masters as the CD.

    Also, note that waveform plots of LPs can be misleading.

    CDs can still hold more dynamic range than an LP.. we shouldn't need to go back to older technology to get good sound! I have a lot of CDs from the early 90's and they sound really really good.
     
  13. tung

    tung madcap bovine silliness

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    Hope you don't mind if I post some Thoughtforms wavforms:

    [​IMG]

    Tune called "Thoughtforms" by Lush from about 1990. It's actually got little in the way of dynamic range, yet the drums have peaks and the waveform is not brickwalled.

    The guitars are using compression and chorus on the preamps.

    Visually, this is how I would expect some of Opeth's loud bits to look if they weren't brick-walled.
     
  14. Anaon

    Anaon Member

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    So what do you think about Watershed production and mastering?
     
  15. Frosties

    Frosties Blind @ heart

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    Best bump I've seen in a while.
     
  16. Luann

    Luann Member

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    My dad told me that it isn't bad, specially for a metal band.
    OH NOES OPETH IS GOING METALLICA
     
  17. tung

    tung madcap bovine silliness

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    Here's my two cents:

    They have dynamics in their music, and it's really a great thing. It's fantastic.

    I've only been a fan for about two weeks, and they're coming to town next week, so I'll be there, because I love love love this band!!

    OK, back to Watershed.

    The dynamics are great, but the loud bits are all brickwalled and sound like it, too. That is not-so-good.

    There is a certain sound that brickwalled recordings have, and it's getting easier to recognize it right away.

    I am in favor and believe in a bit of compression, especially on individual tracks, but this brick-walling kind of over-compression is really really getting old.

    The bottom line:

    I love the music. The sound quality could be improved (just the brick-walled parts).
     
  18. el_serpiente

    el_serpiente Member

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    I haven't looked at the wawefroms but to me it sounds a lot like GR, not really good but on the other hand not terribly bad (at least not for a metal band). on Coil and the first half of hessian peel I can not hear clipping perhaps there is none?

    Again I prefer the LP over the CD.

    Have you guys heard the remastered version of Lightbulb sun? That one is superb in regards to the mastering.
     
  19. Frosties

    Frosties Blind @ heart

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    Maybe a bit off topic, but what about Devin Townsends "wall of sound" style?
     
  20. JemGaarenstroom

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    Although music is being compressed and brick-limited more and more (to gain attention), in Opeth's case it's not a bad thing (yet)

    Yes, Their mixes are loud, but at what point have you EVER heard them clip? Or thought, wow that was TOO loud (for example when all the instruments kick in). It doesn't happen with Opeth.

    It's standard practice to bring them up as high as possible, but so long as their mixes sound great I'm not going to complain.
     

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