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Prehistory - Does It Really Matter?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by BlackMetalWhiteGuy, Oct 18, 2009.

  1. hexwind

    hexwind Creepiness Och Terrorism

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    That also brought distortion to other cultures as well and hostility to western culture and American culture specifically.
     
  2. Badbird

    Badbird Never banned

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    Ayn Rand is dead hahahahaha
    I am very nice to my parents altough sometimes there is a little fighting but most of the time nice.My sister who is 20 year old and still haven't move out of home is very mean to mom.I hear all the bitchin and fighting from between those two quite a lot.
    I do like old people more than most people of my age.
     
  3. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    i've seen women that purpousefully get pregnant so they can get on foodstamps/section 8 housing/WIC/get into "the family gateway shelter etc etc

    i've seen women that purpousefully get pregnant as part of being a "gold digger"

    i've seen the slutpuppy women that get pregnant and then really have no fucking clue who the father of ther kid is

    i've seen women that get drugged with date rape drugs, pass out, get impregnated and then think they've got the flu when they get morning sickness because they have no memory of the sexual encounter

    i've met the children that are the product of forcefull rape and incest

    i've seen a woman that's got eight kids with eight different fathers and the youngest was born when the oldest was only 12years old

    i've met the guy that impregnated 12 different women with the oldest kid being exactly a year older than the youngest

    so at the end of the day i gotta say that no, just merely being physically capable of breeding is not something that gets me to respect someone
     
  4. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

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    I wrote about a two page post about fallacies that parents commit, in response to some kid bitching in the GMD Social forum, but my computer fucked up and I lost everything. I immediate rewrote a short notepad outline to jog my memory when I was eventually inspired to rewrite everything, but never followed through.

    Anyway, while monoxide_child was unnecessarily rude in his critique, his argument is not baseless. Most of the criteria that correlate with parenthood are not disirable characteristics and from a qualitative standpoint are essentially the opposite of what would qualify one to cite themselves as an authority in an argument.

    Regardless, many parents invariably cite their perceived househould dominance as an excuse to employ the "argument from authority" fallacy in any and every argument against their child(ren). Monoxide_child is correct in his skepticism of the legitimacy of this tactic, as it would not be permissable in any other context and therefore should be dismissed outright because it is indeed fallacious.

    However, this is not an issue pertaining to the necessity (or not) of understanding prehistory, so perhaps I will create another thread for this topic when I'm feeling ambitious and have a few hours of free time to articulate my thoughts a bit more coherently.
     
  5. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    far from the point, you still placed it all on a stereotype and further from what I recall about BMWG's father was just a matter of him being labor force and satisified where BMWG is persueing science. The world takes all kinds to go round and what is right for a particular person is what it is.

    As fo your issues with teenage pregnacy or the goals of woman, ignorance plays a role and the bottom line is if the dip stick that was dippin was pullin it would be a less frequent issue. Young girls are very vulnerable as you once mentioned, they are primed and nature is calling, they want love and security as part of that call. Teen years have thier share of ignorance as to the existance of the great elusive "love". Most of what you mentioned happens most frequent in more desperate demographics... where more ignorance prevails. Sometimes this desire for "love" is further fueled by this desperation... "to get out"... and youth has its optimistic nature which reality fails repeatedly.

    Dont let all that ruin it for those of us... the majority... that do the best we seem able with our young ones.
     
  6. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Indeed off topic but I didnt waqnt to let your post go. You are applying a theory (by laymens def) while not considering that a parents use of athority is, well many things.

    1. Comes from knowledge, generally first hand "been there, done that, not good idea"
    2. Comes from concern, an inate human condition to have concern for offspring... same as its an inate condition for specific ages to rebel against parents or authority... are any bells ringing ?
    3. Your scenerio, which is realistic, just not the "ONE and ONLY" often comes from being tired of pissing back and forth with a child over stuff covered in items 1&2. "a mans gotta have better things to do with his time"
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    not @ BMWG but everyone in general

    believe me - most of you know how I hated school, failed miserably, pulled excellent grades in summer school, my father was the principle of my school and we would argue and argue about "why did I have to be bored to tears for 180 days/6 months wne I could learn it to high 80's - mid 90's in 6 weeks flat?" Until he finally had to say "we are done talking about this" quite firmly. So fucking what, big fucking deal... his point was "Why didnt I just do good and quit the antics because I was going to screw up my life.... well guess what he was right and the little punk assed kid I was WAS WRONG!

    Took me 20 years to see it.

    Get over it, parents are parents, they have a job to do and dont need all the bull-shit to boot and still tolerate plenty, plenty you would not take from your own age group. You would be fists up all the way.
     
  7. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    this is actually what i meant, i was just too lazy to be thouroughly articulate
     
  8. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    my whole point was that the people that physically breed seem to be much less competent to raise children than the people that don't breed, there are a lot of categories of people that i feel shouldn't raise children, and from what i've seen, most people that are actually biological parents fit into those categories, and at the end of the day, being physically capable of breeding doesn't make you qualified to be the person to raise the kids you physically produced
     
  9. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

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    Maybe it would make more sense if we could draw some comparisons.

    The following logical fallacy is our basis for comparison:

    If I can produce offspring, it is my right to raise them according to my own moral standards.

    Logical equivalents:

    If I can build my own car, it is my right to drive it according to my own moral standards.

    If I can start my own bank, it is my right to operate all finances and transactions according to my own moral standards.

    If I can engineer my own chemical food additives, it is my right to use them according to my own moral standards.

    If I can synthesize my own drugs, it is my right to distribute them according to my own moral standards.

    If I can program my own computer virus, it is my right to distribute it according to my own moral standards.

    If I can build a weapon of mass destruction, it is my right to use it according to my own moral standards.


    Admittedly, some comparisons are more realistic than others and the comparisons themselves can be criticized as slippery slope fallacies, but this does not change the fact that simply having the desire or capacity do perform a task does not unconditionally qualify one to do so. This argument itself is even an understatement, because it does not consider the fact that many people don't have kids due to a desire or capicity to produce children, but rather due to a lack of desire or capacity to restrain themselves from reproducing. In addition to the unfair consequences that this imposes onto the children themselves, it is also a self perpetuating cycle of idiocracy that systematically lowers the bar for each successive generation. This is a culturally unsustainable practice that not only enables, but favors those who are the least qualified to contribute to our collective future.
     
  10. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Still sounds like your basing too much on current animosity, so all I can say to any of you is get back to me after you have children, hopefully no more than two please... LOL

    Regardless as I was reading that I became amused because the last paragraph is exactly how I try to describe my "wife" having taught my daughter how to drive. Now my"wife" was not the best driver and my daughter is worse because she (wife) was a worse teacher then a driver due to her just letting my daughter drive down the road... "woopie, I can drive" rather than teaching her the important and difficult parts of driving first and foremost, which is NOT driving down a wide open country road, lateeda. So my daughter parks lateeda, my daughter corners lateeda, she backs up lateeda, she looks around lateeda, she talks on the cell phone lateeda and I have three.... COUNT THEM... THREE smashed up cars, f'in getto draggers, thats what I got, f'in getto draggers and my daughter ?..... LATEEFUCKINDA

    SO its like this :

    My Dad can fix his own car, it is my right to drive it according to my own lateefuckinda standards.

    Your correct I NEVER should have been a parent
     
  11. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    The 'is' and 'ought' bits of this argument are getting kind of confusing. When you guys are making claims about 'qualifications' or 'rights', it would be a lot clearer if you'd indicate whether the claim you're discussing is actually the case at the moment (and if so, whether this is because of some officially sanctioned 'law' in some country/s, or because you think this is what most people agree on) or whether you're making some claim to more universal bullshit 'rights' that people 'should' agree on.

    There are plenty of countries with virtually nil requirements for raising children. Monkeys can raise children.
     
  12. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I believe there is a universal law on parenting and unless things are truely out of control no one should ever have a right to interfer with a parents rearing.

    Theres a crapload of people out there that have never held their own baby in their arms writting books and implanting ideas in everybodys head that theres only one way to raise kids and thats the perfect little world they conjure up in their head.

    Children are born to loath the manor in which they are raised and parents are born to say too bad kid, deal with it, these are your easy days and LIFE will set you straight, it can go easy or it can go hard.
     
  13. Frontal Lobotomy

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    Wow...that is a depressing way of looking at things... What do you consider out of control?

    I have a friend who is now 30. Five years ago she told her mother that she was raped when her family was together on a holiday when she was 15. Her mother's response was 'I've always known'. End of discussion. My friend has had both bulimia and anorexia for the past fifteen years and her mother never acknowledged the problems my friend was having because she doesn't want anyone to blame her for them. Oh, the irony... This is a person completely unfit to be a parent and although she never did anything to directly make things get out of control, she never did anything to make her daughter's life easier either. If you ask me, someone should have interfered...

    Back on topic.. Research into our past is in my opinion, very important. Imagine never knowing that dinosaurs walked the earth. Imagine the religious books being the only explanation for the earth's and our own existence. The money going into this so called 'useless' research is nothing compared to the amount of money spent every birthday on spoiled, useless teenagers of wealthy parents around the world, or the amount of money that changes hands every day in football clubs. Little perspective on things wouldn't hurt...
     
  14. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    So someone should have interfered....who? Who gets to "play god" in that situation? The root of almost every problem discussed in this thread so far is selfishness in the part of one or many people. Rank or title does not remove the possibility/probability of selfishness wreaking havoc in every current and new frontier.
     
  15. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    yes yes a little perspective, how intriging, lets take a look into the personal lives and familys of those intervened in. In the end the one with the problem still has to deal with their problem on their own terms. With interventions suddenly everybody has a problem they have to deal with, a manmade problem, families suddenly become totally disfunctional, like a deck of cards thrown across the room... and the people that intervened walk away with chest pumped out and giant egos that they are superheros.

    Perhaps your scenerios are examples of those unfit to be children... whoa !

    I have had a anorexic (and OCD) girlfriend and heard many stories from her. Dont you know everybody done her wrong, imagine that.

    My daughters best friend was bulimic, shes fine today and was pretty decent as a kid too, she just couldnt keep her finger out of her throat.

    I've heard a load of sob stories from girls, sometimes I wonder if they tell everybody the same one or make up special ones for special people. For what ever reason I have had mostly girlfriends with some mental "disorder", most of those were spoiled, pampered middleclass girls whos issues are now in heavy question with me. The one that lasted the longest, 20 years, my daughters mother, truely had a poor, deprived, rough childhood and was the most sane, toughest, strongest woman I have known, we remain good friends today. The rest I just see as wack jobs that blame everything on everybody else. Woman are innate liars, its their way to their means, or thier retrobution for which they didnt get their own way, quite a little game as I look back now and see more clearly.

    Until one has had superheros for a day enter their home and family and tear it down, one should shut up, they know nothing.
     
  16. Frontal Lobotomy

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    Dakryn, you have totally missed my point.. The mere fact that there are too many people out there who think like you and don't want to 'play god' is the very reason why so many children continue to live in crappy homes. Adults who perform incest, parents who mentally of physically abuse their children and parents who clearly don't give a shit, most often go under the radar when it comes to the authorities because children don't tell. Then it's not up to the authorities, but the other adults in that child's life. When it comes to bullying, they say that doing nothing is just as bad. Well, this is ten times worse. Everybody is so concerned not to overstep when it comes to someone else's children, worrying that they are going to meddle with someone's rights. They completely forget that the children have a right to a childhood without constant fear and terror, and that comes first!! If anything, they are overstepping every boundary by not doing anything.

    To answer your question 'who?' - her relatives for one, her teachers, the social services, parents of her friends back then. Anyone, and I guarantee you she would have wished them welcome because she was living in hell. I'm not even sure that it's the fear of 'playing god' as much as the fear of being inconvenienced... People suck sometimes...

    I actually deleted this next part, but since razoredge was so kind to crap on everything I believe, I felt that I should put it back up..

    I had an abusive father growing up and I was one of those few who actually talked to anyone willing to listen. But nobody wanted to be a 'superhero' even though I was desperate for them to be. My mom was left completely alone to take care of me and my sister, and with meager resources she still did a hell of a job. But it took too long, and the experience left all of us permanently scarred. Nevertheless, we have managed with each others help and are (and have always been) productive contributors of the society. But I don't expect everyone to be as tough as we are. (Trust me, nobody with a tough childhood is completely sane.)

    I know what you're talking about. Children's services who swoop in and make a mess of things. We've all heard that story. But there are also a lot of success stories you never hear about, because it's not news-worthy. From your reply, I would guess that you've had a bad experience with this. I'm sorry for that. I still would have wanted the children's services to help when I was a kid. It couldn't have been worse than it already was... Besides, I always think that things should stay within an extended family first and contacting any authorities should be the last resort. But relatives are too often too scared to be the 'superhero'. I'll never understand how someone can watch their niece or nephew be taken by children's services and never offer to do anything.

    Btw, I was trying to put the 'perspective' on the topic of this discussion, which was science..

    Another btw, I really don't appreciate you basically saying that my friend was unfit to be a child to her parents because she got raped by an asshole and subsequently developed an eating disorder because she couldn't stand to be in her own skin. That is the most ignorant, ruthless and stupid thing I have ever heard.
     
  17. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    LOL... well I think blaming the kids parent and saying they were unfit was the most ignorant, ruthless and stupid thing I have ever heard... but alas it is common so congradulations you boarded the blame train. Totally missing my point anyhow, which was simply to turn the table.

    You know nothing about CPS, of the familys they inflict something like less than 5% were valid cases. I have not known a single family, person who was abused or did abuse in my life. I know many that fell into the grips of CPS over petti bullshit and were completely destroyed. All are treated the same, all are treated as if the children are beaten to near death daily for no apparent reason. All are guilty and will be so proven, no one excapes intact, no one gets out with a life.

    By our current pussy standards all of us who grew up in the 60's and 70's and prior generations were "abused". I have yet to meet one of my generation or older that did not say they got their ass handed to them when they asked for it and respected their parents for it. Credit their character to a much more strict upbringing than this world of pussys we live in today.

    I was in grade school when teachers could still use a paddle for out of control children and yes indeed I got it once in 4th grade, in fact by my fathers permission after a first few warnings. I was mad, I was humiliated, I fucking deserved it and I towed the line there after. Done deal, lesson learned. Today that would cost a teacher their job and their entire future, not just teaching but any job.

    My father would have lost his job, his future and our family today for the handful of bare assed spankings I got during my growing pains, golly gee would my life be great today. I could have grown up in a multitude of foster homes, learning lots of neat tricks from other punks. Woopee !

    Dont tell me about offending what you believe in because your father was an ass clown. You are but one person that if what you say was truely "abuse" amounts to about 1% of the population and anybody else that could remotely be ACCUSED of "abuse" has to pay for what ever was wrong with your family.

    And yeah this is about science, there is a whole field out there making big bucks studying human psychology and declaring we all need their help, yet how the fuck did we survive the first 9950 years without their sorry lame pussy asses ?

    Uh gee... let me think... because our parents have always taught us the lessons of life. Big scientific discovery was just made.
     
  18. Frontal Lobotomy

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    I do so wonder where you gather your statistical information from. 5% valid cases? True abuse amounts to 1% of the population? First, which population? And second, where do you gather your data from? Because you'd be surprised... You talk like you're an expert on the subject, but so far, the only qualification I know you have is actually being a parent yourself, which by your own words, never should have happened. The people who say 'I was beaten but I'm a better person for it' are almost exclusively male, and they spank their own children. Wonder how much of that statement can be contributed to making an excuse because they realize they can't control their temper..

    I was also spanked, and my teacher used to beat me...Of course, she was a sadistic bitch and needed to be threatened before she stopped, but that's another matter. I come from a country where it's still allowed to spank children, but I live in a country where that's not allowed, and the children's services do a pretty good job in most cases - when the law and the guidelines actually permit them to do it. Yes, bruises and cuts and mental abuse was 'truely abuse'. Children wait for guidelines from the parents and unless the child has mental issues, if he acts up and the parent feels the need to hurt him than the problem is entirely on the parent who has no idea how to bring up the child without using violence, not on the child. Period. This I know to be the fact because my sister works with children and parents who have a problem with anger. It always, no exceptions, comes from the parents. Also nobody who has had an spank-free childhood goes on to spank or abuse their own children. If that happens, that's an exception to the rule, and that says a lot. You think you're better for being spanked and humiliated, but you are extremely defensive, your opinion of women is horrifying and you overall seem like a very aggressive person. But for all I know, your childhood could have been the best part of your life. You have actually never experienced abuse, but you still give yourself the permission to tell everyone else to 'shut up' about the 'superheroes' because 'they know nothing'. I didn't miss your point, I know exactly what you were trying to say, but the table cannot be turned, in my opinion. That is why I commented on it. But this will be my last post on the matter, because this discussion seems completely fruitless. We'll never see eye to eye.
     
  19. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Because you are a scared little boy ? Or are you a scared little girl ? You say you were spanked and this is the standard by which you claim to be "abused" ? If that is abuse how do you respond to the daily ruthlessness of life in the adult world ? Parents that sit and argue back and forth with their children, taking lip service from their children is whats fucked up in this world today. Its why we need teachers aids in school and the classrooms are still out of control. Its why school kids say fuck you to their teachers and anything else they can spew out their snotty little mouths, because they can and they can get away with it. Not one of my classmates or my generation would have ever considered spewing our mouth because we knew what was comming if we did. Its called respect. Disipline is innate in rearing young, its in every species on the planet. It quick, its harsh and then its over, we move on with life because the lesson was taught... RESPECT. This sit around the house and swap nasty speak with children over petti nonsense is bullshit and endless. Its the same problem everyday the child decides to have its panties in a bunch and no one mature has time for that bullshit, theres important things to get done, be quiet and stop the drama. I personally consider parents that raise their kids that way should be imprisoned for neglect. They teach their kids nothing expect "I can get away with it", just what we need in this world is more people thinking they "can get away with it".

    I dont approve of REAL abuse, I never approved of the go out and pick you own switch but I understand the point of it, it gave the kid time to realize "I screwed up, I crossed the line and Im about to get my ass handed to me by this twig Im looking for, this sucks, I dont think I will try that one again" I know familys that laugh about certain kids that went and picked the biggest branch they could find, no one is scarred for life. Anybody that thinks that way is seriously soft and weak. These are not regular occurances, sparadic according to the behavior of the child which in general is pretty good because they know the differencde between right and wrong, because they dont get away with wrong... RESPECT.

    So tell me about my "horrifing opinion on woman" and point to anything I said thats untrue.

    I wont put the time into finding links to prove what I have said about CPS, that was something I did many years ago and it would take me hours to find the exact numbers. Cases of real abuse are a very low percentage of those who have fallen into their grips and thats all I need to know, do you wish to deny it ? I dont think so because you yourself gave a 1% figure yet hundreds of familys fall into their grips daily and once they have you you are screwed over by them for a mandatory 1 year. For one year everything else in your familys life will be put on hold, for one year you will delete your savings. I know people that were told they had to quit their jobs by CPS because they would take their children into custody for "neglect" if the parents were not home with the kids to put them on the bus and take them off. Why ? Because siblings had a "fight", imagine that kids fighting amounst themselves. Further turned into a nightmare because the parents could not hand the asses of the fighters to them and stop the problem pronto.

    "Go to your room" "take a time out", give me a fucking break, thats all your doing giveing the child a BREAK. Children have few rights, they have the right to behave and their rights proceed from there, should they not chose they have no rights, based on that they will make the right choices. Based on the free for all pussy world they have no need to make any choice other than the worst possible behavior because its the easy way, no stress there and its fun to boot. Congradulations

    BTW my daughter just turned 21, loves me and claims I am the source of her strenght. She fought like hell when she was in her teens but she's slowly growing up and smelling the roses, glad that I did my best to detour the bad roads she headed down and both her mother and I get constant complements on how polite and respectful she is. Thank you very much. Another child not raised pussy fashion, pussys have no right in other peoples homes.
     
  20. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Also please do tell me what behavior you were spanked for and why your teacher used to "beat you" and in what way... because Im an "aggressive" "sadistic" fuck and would get off on such stories, LOL. Im sure you were completely innocent right ? Beaten for the shear joy of it because "someone" couldnt control their temper ?
     

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