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Present bass without being heard

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by koalamo, Oct 2, 2011.

  1. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    I've been struggling with this for awhile now sorry if the titles confusing.


    How do you guys get your bass to sit with your guitar so that you cannot tell that they are two seperate instruments. I'm looking for a huge and present low end without people actually hearing the bass. I've tried limiting it to piss but it doesn't seem to help it still jumps out from time to time.


    Also how loud do you guys tend to mix bass in comparison to guitars, I do this subconciously but when I go to check my meters the guitar and bass are always hitting about the same on the meter so maybe I'm mixing it too loud

    Cheers for any help guizzz :)
     
  2. AndrewB

    AndrewB That Darn Kid

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  3. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    Actually your thread was the inspiration for mine i was hoping to find even more information i would've bumped it but I couldn't remember what to search for it to come up in the sneap search :zipit:
     
  4. Habsburgs

    Habsburgs Member

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    cut @ 500, 800, 3k? idk
     
  5. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    I think it's all about the low end "hand-off" between the instruments. I find this much easier with finger style playing (and find it easier to make picking stick out).
     
  6. pikachu69

    pikachu69 mixomatic 2000

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    its a combination of getting the right high/low pass ratio between the bass and guitars and volume automation of the bass to keep it present. When its low automate it up, when it jumps out automate it down. Or use vocal rider.
    It is AMAZING on bass.
     
  7. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    I do this actually maybe not enough I still judge based on my eyes that's definitely a problem

    I've never recorded anyone who plays with their fingers I've actually always wanted to I really hope that's not the only solution because most bassists around here play with picks ):
     
  8. AndrewB

    AndrewB That Darn Kid

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    If you're trying to make the bass blend into the guitars, then you should already be compressing it a shitton, so automating it shouldn't really be necessary.

    I'd like to add something that was posted in my thread, which I've found has been CRUCIAL when I'm trying to use this technique, which is tight playing.

    Finger-style playing really helps for making the low end of the bass sound good. Otherwise it's definitely more difficult to make it blend in as well. But if you're trying to do this with a picked bass, using a multiband compressor can be pretty helpful, especially if you can zero in on the main frequencies of the pick sound.
     
  9. Terminus

    Terminus Member

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    Fixed and +1
     
  10. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    The playing on what I'm mixing now is pretty tight so I don't think that's the problem I just don't get where to put the bass I've tried lowering it limiting it to fuck and back cutting massive amounts from 150-300 hz and multi banding 80 to 130 so that sits right and it's still not sounding like what I want it's definitely a mix issue on my end

    Anyone else have any advice? ):
     
  11. AndrewB

    AndrewB That Darn Kid

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    Well, what exactly is the problem? Is it too present?
    Is the bass playing the same thing as the guitar? If it's not, then it won't have the effect you're looking for.

    Also, remember that if you start boosting the area between 80 and 130Hz, then you should probably cut that range in the guitars.
     
  12. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    Yeah it's too present I've been mostly cutting that area in guitar and yeah the bass is playing the same part. Thanks for the help though maybe I'll post a clip in the rate my mix section.
     
  13. agentmetal

    agentmetal Member

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    What is your current signal chain for the bass ?
     
  14. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    I usually duplicate the track and have the low end low passed at 500 and the grit track high passed at 500

    then i run the low end through ampeg svx and I use the amp eq to cut 150 and 300 pretty severly then I eq out alittle more low mids in the bass and compress with waves cla 76 and then limit it with ozone

    for the grit I usually use juicy 77 and then limit that too and cut out some problem frequencys with eq
     
  15. agentmetal

    agentmetal Member

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    I suggest lowpassing your "low end" track much lower, like 200 or even maybe 150. I guess you're getting loads of midrange junk that just muddy up your bass and mess with your guitars...

    Try high/lowpassing to retain only that low-end you want, like the 70-140 Hz octave or so. Patch an EQ on it. Leave it at zero, you will adjust it later (unless you have spotted some obvious resonance or dead spot). Then run the output into staged compressors (slow comp => faster comp => limiter). Slam the fuck out of your low end so that the meter barely moves, while avoiding any distortion (hence the need for staged compressors). Then put on a pair of good cans, listen to your whole mix and go back to your EQ plugin. Listen for unwanted resonances or notes jumping out at you, and adjust EQ accordingly. Given you have highpassed your guitars high enough (that is, at least 80 Hz with a steep slope), this should clean your low end big time.

    Then, once your low end is in the ballpark, you will mostly control the presence of your bass in the mix by adjusting the other (grit) track. Hope this helps :)
     
  16. agentmetal

    agentmetal Member

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    And leave that low-end DI clean. No Ampeg SVX, no cab sim, no impulse. Bass cabs are great for shaping the grit and top-end, but they are usually far from being flat in the low-end, and most of the time this WILL result in dead notes and jumping notes. You'll have a much easier job if you remove these issues at the source.
     
  17. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

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    Lowpass at 4k. Take away a shitload at 1500,800,500,200hz then adjust until you just here the bass and no tone
     
  18. DanLights

    DanLights Santa Hat Forever

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    I second agent metal's advice, I wouldn't put ampeg svx on the low end either, if I'm not going for an "intelligible" bass tone, although in my case most of the time I do. Perhaps simply an impulse might work, but I wouldn't add amp tone.
     
  19. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

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    Pocketing the bass will make the biggest difference. If you're going for that kind of sound, I would just get rid of most of the high end out of the bass altogether; LPing at 5khz should do the trick. The biggest issue is if your bass tone gets solo'd for a second, you're in trouble :lol:

    I'm a fan of telling the bass and guitars apart in my recordings, so I generally avoid following the advice I'm giving you. I feel like the most awesome thing about a mix is when each instrument occupies its own space, and can be heard, but everything still blends together.
     

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