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Question for you Rage Fans...

Discussion in 'ProgPower USA' started by jkohn, Apr 4, 2003.

  1. jkohn

    jkohn Member

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    OK, I'm trying to familiarize myself with some of the PP4 bands that I've never really listened to in the past, so I picked up a 3-pack of Rage CD's that was priced pretty cheap at Amazon. It included Lingua Mortis, Ghosts, and XIII. Initial impression is that the CD's are pretty good. I especially like Lingua Mortis. As somebody who also listens to a lot of classical music, I really like the concept of "symphonic heavy metal".

    So my question is, does any of their other stuff sound like this? Maybe a "roadmap" describing their sound and how it's changed over the years through all their albums would be nice.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  2. teri

    teri Mistress of Metal

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    As a classical nut myself, i prefer the era of Rage that has the Lingua Mortis Orchestra as well...The thing about Rage is they have gone through several incarnations...Their very early stuff is raw thrash, and probably would not appeal to you at all...
    The band has a HUGE discography (if you can believe this, it is larger than Black Sabbath's!), but if you like very heavy yet melodic metal that isnt thrash you might want to try Unity, their most recent.
    For rawer power metal, i like Black in Mind and End of All Days, but its pushing it a bit as far as the thrashier elements go, if you dont like thrash at all, which is just an assumption i am making...usually the thrash heads arent so nuts about the Orchestrated stuff...
    If my assumption is correct, then stick with the mid 90's releases on...
    By the way, Ghosts was my favorite album of 99, and continues to get frequent play time...i love everything about it...
    teri
     
  3. alexofbodom

    alexofbodom Member

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    You should definitely give Unity a try. That is one of the best metal releases, if not the best, of 2001. Black in Mind and Missing Link are also awesome. They have chamged their styles so many times, somtimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, but Unity is definitely a great change to the better and every metal fan should give this album a listen. They will rule at PP4!!!!!!
     
  4. Geo

    Geo Member

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    The ones you picked up are basically all of the really orchestral ones. There's bits and pieces of other 90's stuff that has some orchestration, but most of it is quite a bit different. Unity, in particular, is pretty much a return to their late 80s sound (with better production)...sort of a power-thrash thing a la Running Wild, but with a more hardcore punk (!) edge due to Peavey Wagner's vocals. I know it sounds iffy from that description, but I really like it.
     
  5. Mephistopheles

    Mephistopheles The Answer You Seek

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    The problem with the 'orchestral phase' of Rage is that there is slim to zero chance we will actually hear any of thoes songs live. Especially at their first US show in a smaller venue (smaller than they are used to at the very least).
     
  6. Soul_Schizm

    Soul_Schizm Metallic Fiend

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    I agree with what was said here. It appears that you picked up all the albums from a certain phase of the band. The other releases will probably sound quite different to you.

    But, I'm sure you appreciate more than "just" symphonic metal, so I'd pick up Unity at least. Great grooves on that one. From their earlier stuff, I've always enjoyed Trapped & Reflections of a Shadow.

    --S
     
  7. jkohn

    jkohn Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback. Sounds like at the very least I should check out Unity. I didn't mean to imply I was only interested in symphonic metal, I can appreciate good music from just about any genre of metal except death/black. I just found the symphonic elements on those albums interesting because they used a real orchestra instead of keyboards.
     
  8. Bryant

    Bryant Mr. Sleepy

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    I only have one song and it is "Down." I hear an Accept vibe to it, though they don't sound like Accept if you get my drift. Do the other songs on "Unity" have a similar style ? Although I generally am more of a progger, to this day a couple of Accept CDs still get quite a bit of playing time considering their age from me. If there other stuff on that CD is similar, I can't order it fast enough.

    Bryant
     
  9. Darrin

    Darrin Zero Hour Forum Messiah

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    I would recommend checking out any of their albums from Trapped! to the present day. I doubt there will be much played at PP from any earlier than Trapped!, though "Don't Fear the Winter" may very well get played, and that's a great early Rage tune.

    Trapped!, The Missing Link, Black in Mind, and End of All Days are pure raw power and all of those albums are worth having. Then you have your orchestra stuff with Lingua Mortis, XIII, and Ghosts which I love though some people complained they toned things down a bit. Welcome to the Other Side is excellent though plagued by the worst bass drum sound I've ever heard, and I haven't heard Unity yet. I can't wait to see em at PP4.

    -Darrin
     
  10. peavy_fan

    peavy_fan Member

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    Well all the stuff they did before 1993 was a mix of fast-trash and power metal. From 1994 to 1996 (Black in Mind era) they where more melodic-power-metal with still some trash influences. From 1997 to 1999 They where some symphonic-metal (Ghost is a great album). From 2000 to now they have gone back to their Black in Mind era style with a better aproach because Victor is a much better guitarist than Spyros.

    MY 10 Favorites Rage album does like this:
    1 - Trapped
    2 - Unity
    3 - Black in Mind
    4 - Welcome to the other side
    5 - End Of All Days
    6 - Missing Link
    7 - 13
    8 - Perfect Man
    9 - Execution Granted
    10 - Secrets in a Weird World
     
  11. Hyoukinmono

    Hyoukinmono Real Man

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    I think that "Down" has some elements that are common to other songs by Rage, but I wouldn't say that it is that representative of their work. I like "Down" but I don't think it is anywhere near their best song. It's a bit simplistic in some ways, but if you like it, you might want to try some of their other stuff.

    From "Unity," I would start with "Insanity" to get a more representative taste of Rage's style. I think that "Insanity" has elements that are common through all of Rage's releases from the "Trapped" and "Missing Link" era through the present. The title track "Unity" is an instrumental tune that has a distinctly prog feel to it, though it's definitely more prog than most of their earlier stuff. Rage has had some prog influences in their music, especially since "XIII," but they are absolutely a metal band. Classical music has been a big influence in their style and melodies, though, so a taste of prog has been in their music for a long time.

    Speaking of Accept, Rage did a cover of the classic Accept tune "Fast as a Shark" on "Trapped."
     
  12. alexofbodom

    alexofbodom Member

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    The thing about Rage is that they have gone through many stages in their careers, including many line-up changes as well as changes in their music. There is not one single album that will give you a complete overview of what Rage is all about. Four albums I would recommend are:
    1. Trapped (1992) or Missing Link (1993) to get a feel for earlier Rage (those are the last two of the early days which was from around 1985 to 1993)
    2. Black in Mind (1995) One of the best metal albums of all time IMO
    3. XIII (1998 I think) (The best of the orchestral albums...Lingua Mortis is good but it is mainly playing Rage classics with orchestra, while XIII was composed with orchestra)
    4. Unity (2001) The new Rage (Wagner - Smolski - Terrana). Kick ass album!!!

    Their collection is just so big it is hard to know where to start from, but the best bet would be to listen to more recent albums since that is how they will more likely sound live with current lineup. No matter what they play at PPIV, they will kick ass!!! I have been waiting years to see this band live!!! Hopefully it will be Grave Digger's turn next year.
     
  13. DAVETHEMETALGUY

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    i love 'perfect man' which was like their only domestic release...which is probably why i like it
     
  14. ratanda

    ratanda Member

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    The fest is over, but being a big Rage fan I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

    I haven't heard the first 2 albums, and I largely agree with alexofbodom.

    *Perfect Man, Secrets in a Weird World, Reflections of a Shadow
    These had a similar sound to them, more raw like someone previously mentioned, and Peavey's vocals are more wild

    *Trapped, Missing Link
    These 2 I consider to have a similar charcter also, and I think of them as a transition to the next stage. Not quite as raw/rock-out as the previous ones, but still not as heavy as the next ones.

    *Black In Mind, End of All Days
    Here Rage started to get darker and heavier. While some metal bands at the time were getting softer or losing their edge, Rage was going the opposite direction and getting more intense. I'd definitely say these 2 albums have their own personality and were the heaviest. These 2 and XIII also had the 4-man line-up

    *XIII
    I agree with what everyone said about their orchestral direction. XIII falls into this stage as well, but I think it has a very distinct sound to it. It's very very laid back, but still has a huge sound. They definitely slowed down with this album as compared with their previous 2 heavier offerings.

    I'm not really familiar with Ghosts and have just started listening to Unity. With Unity, it sounds like they're drawing from an earlier style--way faster than XIII and less dark/heavy then Black In Mind. So there ya go! :) I highly recommend End of All Days and Missing Link. :)
     
  15. yngwieuli

    yngwieuli New Metal Member

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    Listen to the following three CD's! These three CD's is Rage in it's current formation:

    1). Welcome To The Other Side
    2). Unity
    3). Soundchaser

    And if you are into classical music with a twentheith century approach
    pickup:

    4). Victor Smolski- The Heretic...

    All Four Cd's are awesome and I'm positive you will enjoy them...

    Yngwieuli
     
  16. citizen

    citizen Evil Boll Weevil

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    i simply HAVE to respond to a rage post like this. i'll break it into eras based on band lineups (sorry if i get too detailed, but hopefully it will prove helpful).

    *** the pre-manni days ***

    depraved to black (ep - as avenger)
    prayers of steel (as avenger)
    reign of fear
    execution guaranteed

    i consider the avenger ep and album part of this era. then it includes both of the first two rage albums. while i appreciate them a ton and have listened to them enough to know every word, i would not recommend getting into this stuff unless you turn into a diehard rage fan (and listen to all of the other material first).

    *** the manni days ***

    perfect man
    secrets in a weird world
    reflections of a shadow
    extended power (ep)
    trapped!
    beyond the wall (ep)
    the missing link
    refuge (single)

    manni is simply an amazing guitar player. he is full of raw talent that i won't try to explain. my first exposure to rage was the perfect man album. this is the first rage disc that manni (and chris) were on. it is what suddenly made me stop listening to both of the helloween "keepers" albums. i was listening to perfect man non-stop. the first track that rage played at pp4 was from this album (it was "don't fear the winter"). the production on perfect man is a bit old sounding but is also quite unique.

    the next few albums are all quite good, but they hit on something very fresh with trapped! (songs like "solitary man" and "enough is enough" were early favorites i recall). it is hard to explain though since rage seldom sounds like other bands. but the new sound becomes what i consider the pinnacle of early rage on the missing link. this is still my favorite album (by and band) of all time (with my favorite tracks being "certain days" and "raw caress"). but the missing link took a few listens to grow on me while trapped! hit me from day one.

    so from this era i recommend getting perfect man and trapped! if you love perfect man then grab the albums between it and trapped! then if you love trapped! (how could anyone not?) then definitely get the missing link.

    *** rage as a 4 man band ***

    10 years in rage
    lingua mortis
    in vain (singles)
    end of all days
    higher than the sky (single)
    black in mind
    live from the vault
    thirteen

    it took two decent guitar players to replace one manni. i think this is how most old school rage fans felt. but when i first got 10 years in rage i had high hopes because this b-sides and new material album has some killer tracks like "vertigo" and "she killed and smiled" on it. then suddenly rage released an album with an orchestra.

    don't get me wrong - i really dig this stuff. but it is not the missing link. it feels like the guitars suddenly lacked the depth peavy wanted so he had to throw in an orchestra. there is some great material in this era, but overall it is my least favorite rage phase. i'd say my favorite album from it all was end of all days (which has "higher than the sky" on it). thirteen is probably the best orchestra heavy cd they made (as others have pointed out in this thread).

    so check out 10 years in rage, end of all days, and thirteen. i noticed some people also saying that black in mind is very good (and very dark) which i'll agree with. but when i want to listen to something from this era, i tend to go directly to one of those three albums.

    *** the new rage ***

    ghosts
    welcome to the other side
    unity
    soundchaser

    rage is now reborn. once again a three man lineup, peavy has surrounded himself with a guitar player who is not only as fresh and ferocious as manni was but also far more technical. then he gets who i consider the most amazing drummer of the decade in the lineup as well. i sure was ready for the second coming. :)

    ghosts was technically written and recorded with the previous lineup, but since the new band was together when it was released i listed it here. welcome to the other side was the first album where victor and peavy really started writing together. i was not overly impressed by it (again it is very good and i listened to it a ton, but compared to other rage material i felt it was only par).

    then unity came out, and i was blown away! this is the album to get into for the new rage material. it has a very new feel to it and captures the fun vibe of my favorite rage works of all time. i also have a promo copy of soundchaser which comes out in a few weeks, and i must say that i like it even more than unity. the track "secrets in a weird world" is by far my favorite at this point.

    so get unity and soundchaser asap!

    whew, that was a bunch of late night typing. for those who don't know me, i was the author of rage's first website ages ago called the rage page (don't laugh, it seemed original at the time, heh). i turned it into only a discography site during the lingua mortis days and then decided to retire it shortly afterwards. i think my excitement level for the current material affected my desire to maintain it. i have been tinkering with the idea of reviving it though lately. to the best of my knowledge, i own every single rage track (via singles and imports) ever released (along with the videos on laserdisc from japan).

    regards,
    doug
     
  17. alexofbodom

    alexofbodom Member

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    Me too!!!
     
  18. Pixelherder

    Pixelherder Member

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    Doug --

    If the detailed and concise information here is just a hint of the kind of site the "Rage Page" used to be, I would definitely recommend reviving it. It's info like this that's hard to find sometimes, and is instrumental in introducing new listeners to this band.

    My first Rage album was "Welcome to the Other Side." As you said, however, and I've heard this from a few other sources, it's par -- so I'm looking forward to diving into some of your other recommendations.

    Thanks for the info! Much appreciated!

    -- Laura
     
  19. ratanda

    ratanda Member

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    Certain Days is my all time favorite Rage song. It would have been nice if they played it. I was right up front yelling it from time to time.

    I haven't heard Welcome To The Other Side. I think when Chris, Sven and Spiros left the band I had the same feeling you did when Manni left the band! :) I was very wary to give this new trio a chance. I need to give Ghosts another chance.

    How long ago was that? I'm sure I must have seen it.

    And about the mosh pit during Rage, I didn't think it was that bad since Rage is a pretty heavy band. I'm surprised a pit didn't break out when Blind Guardian played their heavier faster stuff last year. If a pit broke out during Nightwish that would be a different story :)
     
  20. Se7enChurches

    Se7enChurches I Didn't Break the Oath

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    A) I didn't feel like Blind Guardian had much energy live; certainly not enough to warrant a mosh pit. i would have sooner expected one from Gamma Ray. I half expected one from Mercenary this year.

    B) As far as Nightwish, some crowds will mosh to anything. I was just at the Lacuna Coil/Type O Negative show here and there was a moshpit all the way from Lacuna Coil's first note to Type O Negative's last one. I don't understand how anyone can mosh to either band, but whatever.

    Ryan
     

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