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Races

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by cannibal corpse, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    we're confusing "race" (dark skin-tone) with culture (the way "black" people act) cuz we're all white-skinned people here, (except Caladan) if there were a lot more black-skinned people posting here, it would probably be a lot easier for the rest of us to see the difference between "race" and "culture"
     
  2. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    this explains why flamboyantly gay black guys always spend all their time hanging out with white people
    it also explains why occasianally you have black women that only date white guys

    the "gay rights" movement and the "women's rights" movement haven't really impacted the "black culture" yet
     
  3. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Skin colour / appearance is one of the most effective measures we have of making initial guesses as to culture. Stereotypes and stored judgements are exceedingly useful (necessary, I'd suggest) heuristic measures we employ. Just because some (many, maybe) are prone to becoming attached to the initial judgment, does not make any initial judgment inherently 'wrong'.
     
  4. Death Aflame

    Death Aflame voice of dissent

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    I agree, except skin colour is not equivalent to appearance as a whole, in fact, skin colour is but a minor variable in someone's overall appearance and thus of limited use in itself to make any accurate judgments of the individual and the cultures to which they belong.

    We must also remember that culture is not some unified monolithic entity where all members are the same/follow the same basic principles (race alone is also subject to this since being 'black' can mean many, many different things). More than this, at any one time an individual is a member of multiple, fragmented cultures that could often be conflicting and even contradictory on some level. And this, I argue, is where initial judgments based on appearance fall to pieces since any stereotype we develop before hand is usually based on what we deem to be the most prominent visualization of culture we detect on an individual, regardless of its accuracy or actual importance/impact on the individual in reality.

    It is of course true that our culturally ingrained stereotypes can be confirmed, after all stereotypes develop out of some sort of truth witnessed by people at some point in time. That being said, we should question stereotypes and not merely accept them at face value, after all we most likely did not create the stereotypes that we use everyday, they are the result of a larger cultural force and often serve to fill in the space that ignorance occupies, which is always a potentially dangerous proposition.
     
  5. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    so, as a white person, when i'm looking at a black-skinned person, i'd usually look at their clothing, manner of movement/speech before trying to determine whether or not they are part of the ghettoville gangster culture

    yes people are part of many fragmented cultures
    we have to act differently around different people
    an employed person will act a certain way while at work, and he will act differently outside of work, and in america, the differences in behavior can sometimes make a person look like he has 2 different personalities, we do this with different social groups as well, in america, when you have a male with an oral fixation, where he would be considered "bi-sexual" because he performs oral sex on people of both genders, you have a situation where almost no one would be aware that he's "bi", there would be 2 seperate, mutually exclusive groups of people, the people that know he sucks dick, and the people that know he eats pussy
    even on a non-sexual level, we instinctively divide our friends into these mutually exclusive groupings, where the people he works with are seperate from the people he hangs out with outside of work, where the people that he hangs out with when he's drinking are seperate from the people he sees when he's sober, where the people that only see him when he's with his girlfriend are seperated from his freinds that never actually meet his girlfriend
    when it comes to race, i think it's possible that you could have a black guy that hangs out with white people, but also hangs out with black people that hate white people
    it's also possible for a white guy to spend time with black frinds even though he's spending his saturdays hanging out with white supremesists

    but the individual's initial judgements are based on stereo types, and the stereo types are based on the previous obsevations of others, making generalities based on what's the most visible
    so that when, as white people, we see black people, and we assume that the black people we see are belonging to the ghettoville gangster culture, it is because of the existence of the ghettoville gangster culture that we make these assumptions, just because an individual black peson is capable of behaving like a white person, (Caladan) doesn't mean that the whole black culture has dissapeared
     
  6. krofius

    krofius Active Member

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    From my own experiences and from what i've heard it basically works like this:

    White guy calls black guy my pals = VERY VERY RACIST
    Black guy calls white guy White Trash = No harm done

    And you only hear about the white people being racists..weird isn't it?
     
  7. Caladan

    Caladan Member

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    Fuck that. I don't behave like a white person. About 20% (or less) of all black people live in US ghettos, for you to assume that to be the default behaviour of black people is... ignorant. At best.

    Let's be clear - I don't behave white. I may behave "westernized middle-class", as a result of my upbringing, but for the most part, my values are pure liberal african values.

    Okay, rant over - you probably had the best intentions, but that was a rather "unfortunately chosen" phrase. Say that to an african american, and you'd be called out as being racist.
     
  8. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Called racist because of a lack of knowledge of the relevant statistics? Yeah I guess that's pretty much modern 'tolerance' culture...
     
  9. Caladan

    Caladan Member

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    No. He'll be called racist because of the "implication" that any well spoken, educated black man is behaving "white", or that unruly, disrespectful behaviour is the default "black" behavior.

    Nothing to do with the statistics.

    I'm not saying they're right - I personally don't consider it one bit racist.



    Hope I clarified.
     
  10. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    there's a difference between "culture" and "default behavior"

    when examining "default behavior" blacks and whites would be identical, because we're the same species
    as primates, our default behavior would be different than let's say, a jungle cat or a a wolf

    all i meant was that when an individual white person looks at a black guy, there are assumptions made, those assumptions are based on stereo types, and the stereo types are based on the previous observations of other white people, the "black culture" is different than the "white culture" because of our upbringing

    as i've said earlier, if a black doctor had kids with a black lawyer, you might get something that looks like "The Cosby Show", and it's also possible to have white children grow up into being ghettoville gangster thugs, and clearly
    these differences in behavior (as aplicable to this thread) are NOT caused by any kind of biological differences between random white people and random black people
     
  11. eviljesus

    eviljesus The Metal Messiah

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    Ok, this is way over my head, but im gonna post this anyway. Ok, here it goes. I used to go to an all native american school in Arizona, most of the native americans were Navajos. I was the only white kid, and they were incredibly racist(death threats and everything). i dont that has to do with any of this psychological stuff though. Navajo children are taught from birth that they are the dine(divine) people, and that they are better than everyone one else, and that the white people have horribly wronged them.I dunno about any of you but i never did a fuckin thing to any of them. but they are taught to have that state of mind. and they are only being encouraged. the government pays them, just for being native. and they get free education and medical care. they dont have to work, they dont do anything, but they hate everyone else(they were even racist towards blacks and mexicans).They have gangs that are identified by the words"native pride" on their clothing. and these gangs will actually murder white people. one white guy where i used to live got caught by one of their gangs, and they cut his head off and left his body in the street. no one was arrested. they are a disgrace to their ancestors.iF Charles Manson was native, he'd have been out years ago. if the government would stop paying them, they would be forced to act like decent people, get jobs and contribute to society. but instead, they are just taught from childhood, that they are better than everybody else. now i realize that not all native americans are like this, i am just relating my experiences. i swear i am not racist, this is the straight goddamn truth. anyway, i think this might apply to other minoritys too, i dunno, ill let you guys think about it.
     
  12. eviljesus

    eviljesus The Metal Messiah

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    Dammit, sorry, i didnt mean to post that twice
     
  13. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    Paragraphing, my good man. It's relatively simple and makes everything much easier to digest. :)

    What you describe is quite common in South Africa, also. It's called reverse racism, but then again who ever said racism was purely the domain of us white folks? Everyone is entitled. :)
     
  14. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    i don't think i live really close to an indian reservation, and i don't have to interact with native americans, but i sort of feel your pain
    i'm constantly having to interact with blacks that somehow use "slavery" as an excuse for traeting white people like crap even though all the slaves and slave owners are all dead now just merely from old age, the "CIVIL rights movement" marked the 100th anniversary of the end of the CIVIL WAR, anyone having any kind of actually memory of actually being a slave or a slave owner would have to be about 160 years old

    also i have to constantly interact with Spanish-speeking people that refuse to learn english because they expect the rest of AMERICA to learn how to speak Spanish
     
  15. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    You mean the United States of AMERICA that implored the world to give her "your sick and your poor"? The United States of America that actually has no defined and official national language, and the United States that is partially (and not all that long ago) actually Mexican anyway?
     
  16. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    it's the EXISTENCE of the ghettos that is the explination of why most white people have in their minds, the image of stereo typical black people living in the ghettos, i'm not saying it's right, it's just the way it is, if the ghettos disapeared, the stereo type would dissapear

    also
    the phrase "liberal african values" seems redundant
    why would an african american have anti-liberal values?
     
  17. Caladan

    Caladan Member

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    I agree - I don't expect non-liberal values from african americans, but most of the time I'm unpleasantly surprised.

    Just to point out - I said liberal AFRICAN

    Not liberal African American

    A world of difference, I think.
     
  18. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    Not really, the problem of integreation stems from the fact they were herded onto boats and shipped there from Africa.
     
  19. die for metal89

    die for metal89 blacken the cursed sun

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    yeah i get what a lot of people are upset about and im not even white im mexican. but my girlfriend is white and she is always talking about how if some other race does something its just regular but if a white person does it its racist. i absolutely agree even if its just jokes i mean come on every body has either laughed at or told a racist joke doesnt mean your rasict just poking fun at stereotypes and i think people get that confused with racism. i make fun of mexican stereotypes all the time and whte and black but doesnt mean im racist. my friends will ask me when we are hanging out if ill cut their yard later for cheap and i laugh. i think most people just forget to laugh.
     
  20. forbidden fruit

    forbidden fruit ...is always best

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    There's a difference between jokes between friends, and racial slurs.
    Say a middle aged stranger of colour/race 'x', smoking a pipe and wearing an expensive suit approached you in the street and asked exactly the same question?
    I can't speak for you of course, but I would imagine you'd have an entirely different view of those few words and their implied meaning.
    I am, of course, completely hypocritical in that I'll make jokes at my 'ethnic' friends' expense. (Good humoured and within the bounds of these friends' tolerance for such things) I'd never say these things to strangers, or in the presence of strangers though.
     

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