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Raw Drum Tracks

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by aviel, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. aviel

    aviel Member

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    Hey,
    Can anyone share some drums raw track, unedited? i am going to record real drums for 3 bands this friday, and i am looking for real, un-polished drums raw track for some reference, in case ii will get lost while recording.
    also if you can share your milion dollar tip that might save my ass, i will be glad :)
     
  2. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    I have a short 30 second clip up HERE.

    Along with some quickly recorded guitar and bass DI's ..... (bass is pitched-down guitar, though).
     
  3. Alex_M

    Alex_M Member

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    Hi man!
    Just try to get right overheads sound, it's a primary task. So if you lose something in snare or toms sound you still can replace it with samples, but badly recorded overheads can't be fixed. And hi-hat, right & china individual mics will help you to make sound really cool :)

    Try to keep snare in center of stereo image, not much more in the left side (most of drummers set they snare closer to hi-hat). In this case you may move cymbals to be sure that they have equal distance from snare center. Also you can change distance between OH mics and crashes (use more loud and big crash cymbal with more distanced mic).

    If you will use mics with large diaphragm (such as AKG 414 or so), you can get these distance settings and not lose cool sound much easier. Mics with small diaphragm should be set more accurately to catch the correct sound.

    And don't set it too high, you risk to get not focused cymbals sound with no body, especially if you drum room not big enough. Of course you also could use direct cymbals mics, in this case set your OH higher to add some air (check the phase before record).

    P.S. Tomorrow I'll send you some raw drum tracks, hope it will help you.
    Cheers ;)
     
  4. decoy205

    decoy205 STUCK IN HELL

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    Watch phase in general, I like to flip the phase between top and bottom snare mics to beef up snare.

    Make sure tuning done right and drummer hits hard. Also try and keep symbols as far away from Tom mics as the drummer can deal with.

    Have a good session!
     
  5. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    What these guys said ^^

    Also, get the best takes possible. Figure out where your good punch-in points are and utilize them.

    Don't let anything slide and think "I can fix that later in editing".

    Pretty much just be a nazi and take your grand old time getting the drums tuned best you can, mics placed best, and best takes out of the drummer.

    I just had to deal with recording my own bands drummer and it was a pretty insane session. Lots of anger and frustration and "do it again"s.
     
  6. Harley Barley

    Harley Barley Member

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    Overheads are the most important if you are doing a classic style micing technique. trying and get the snare and kick in the center and move the mics around to get it if you are planning to sample replace the kick later you might want to put a blanket over it so that you can kill some of the snap from the kick in the overs. hihat mic point it diagonally at the snare/bell of hihat you will get your most separation and best tone this way i've found not too close either. You want the hihat to kind of block out the snare when you look down the mic. same idea for room mics get the kick/snare in the center of the image and try to make sure you dont have more cymbal/crash then the others if so put them lower to the ground/move them. that is if you are planning on replacing the drums with samples if not and you are planning on using real drums you are going to need. 1 a great drummer 2 a great sounding drum kit 3 know the sound you are going for and work on getting it. don't solo.
     
  7. Alex_M

    Alex_M Member

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    When you get the sound you like, record your own samples from each drumkit part, including cymbals. Record 4-5 hard and soft hits from each one. Mute the snare bottom when recording samples from other drums. These original samples from recording session really can safe your ass in future, so you will find some not correct hits every time after the session.
    When you start to tune drumheads use hairdryer to keep the tuning. Just tune drumheads as you want, then tune it much higher, use hairdryer in 10 inch from drumhead, move it around rim few times (do not heat too much). Then detune it completely and make a final tuning.
    P.S. Hope my english not sooo terrible ;)
     
  8. aviel

    aviel Member

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    thank you all for your tips, and input, i am going to sum it all up, write it down and take the notes with me.. i think in the studio they have an L2A style compressor, shall i use it on one of the channels? or just keep it all clean?
     
  9. B36arin

    B36arin Member

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  10. aviel

    aviel Member

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    ^^ this one sounds really good!
     
  11. B36arin

    B36arin Member

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    Thanks! There's nothing weird going on. Beta52(I think) on kick, 57s on snare top and bottom, 421s on toms, KM184s on overheads, hihat and ride and a pair of DPAs as room mics(probably muted in that bounce). But we had a good kit(Tama Starclassic with fresh heads), a great room, the drummer was well prepared and we had time to tune the drums. I bought a tunebot a couple of months ago, and it helped A LOT! He was using heavy sticks, and with the fresh heads the snare's fundamental tone would drop 20 Hz in no time.

    There is no golden way to capture good real drums. It depends a lot on what kind of music it is and which sound you are going for. If you don't want to replace the drums you need a good room, a good kit, a great drummer and proper tuning.

    If you're in a great room and you want the drumkit to sound like a drumkit it's a good idea to get the kick and snare in the centre of the stereo image of the overheads. That way you'll be able to turn up the overheads and keep the low end of the overheads intact. It's very important for softer stuff! If you're in a crap room with a crap drummer and will end up replacing most of the shells and high pass the OHs really high you don't really have to think so much about the kick and snare in the overheads since samples will probably dominate. Then the important thing is to capture a good balance of the cymbals. You have to do that either way, but if you ignore the position of the kick and snare it's often easier to get the mics closer to the cymbals and get a balance between them. Somebody already mentioned putting some sort of cloth on the kick drum to get it out of the overheads - good idea if you know you're going to be replacing the kick.

    Most metal drummers use LOADS of cymbals which can rarely be captured fully with only a stereo pair of overheads. Chinas are LOUD, and most drummers have their china right above their ride. So if you want to be able to balance the china and the ride without excessive automation you will need to close mic the ride. I also always put mics on the hihat and splashes(especially if they are small and not very loud). Otherwise, come mix time, the drummers will complain that the china is much louder than the splash in their china+splash fills. I wonder why :)

    Be careful with how hard the drummer hits the shells compared to the cymbals. If the snare is a lot louder than the cymbals you will have lots of snare in your overheads - this can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the direction of the production. I usually don't bitch too much to the drummers, I let them do their thing and adjust the mics accordingly. For modern, technical metal I usually prefer not to have that much snare in the OHs since our main room is pretty ambient. But for softer stuff it's absolutely invaluable, especially when the room sounds great.

    Be careful with tom hits which have cymbals going on at the same time. If the drummer is playing the ride and floor tom at the same time(or in the same fill) and you are compressing the floor tom the ride will become very overbearing(same for rack toms and splashes or crashes). Take samples, worst case scenario is that you can just replace the annoying drum hit.

    Just use your ears and try to identify problems as early as possible. It's easy to move a mic(or even a cymbal if the drummer is cool) while tracking, and it can save you a lot of time during the mix. There are so many variables when tracking drums. But if the drummer is good, the room is good and the kit is tuned properly you will really enjoy it :) There are few things which I enjoy more than tracking a really good drummer.
     
  12. Alex_M

    Alex_M Member

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    Yeah, totally agree with B36arin, try to detect any potential problems in the beginning of record, also you can slightly process your raw tracks to check more possible problems. Just spend a bit additional time at the first day and sleep well ;)

    About L2A using....if you know what you doing-use it on snare and toms, but if you not sure enough-keep it clean, so you can compress it any time you want and still be able to make change...Not correct compression could be destructive...

    P.S. I'm sorry, unable to visit studio today and pick up the track for you, but tomorrow I'll be at studio anyway and finally send it to you.

    Btw, what style are you going to record?

    P.P.S B36rain, your raw drum sound is really cool, perfect work:headbang:
    And drummer did a great job too.
    What chain you used after the mics? What kind of preamps etc.
     
  13. aviel

    aviel Member

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    i am going to record more Rock oriented stuff- Black Velvet, Closer (Kings of Leon), Animals, and some original material
     
  14. Alex_M

    Alex_M Member

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    So, in this case, you should also pay more attention on the room mics sound. It works really cool with medium-tempo stuff, and gives a more natural sound with more ambience.
    Would be great to use stereopair room mics for ambience and mono room mic to add more body to drumkit (check the phase).
     
  15. B36arin

    B36arin Member

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    Yeah, definitely! If the drummer/room is good enough you should try basing the drum sound on the overheads and room mics and only use the close mics to augment a bit. Totally different from most of the productions which are done on this forum, but it can work out really cool!
     
  16. B36arin

    B36arin Member

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    Thanks! Digi 192 converters, I'm pretty sure it's all SSL X-Logic pres. They get the job done...
     
  17. aviel

    aviel Member

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    the drummers are all teenagers. its a total of 4 drummers, there are some better, and there are some that i am quite sure i will have to re-program. the room is a quite big L shaped room, all wooden, the drum kit is the working horse of the studio, so the drum heads are quite old and ripped i guess, but we have a choice of 4 snares, and few nice pre's, and PRO-tools HD, i hope to get nice resaults
     
  18. Alex_M

    Alex_M Member

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    Just take additional cost from the band (if they really want to sound cool) and change old drum heads, it shouldn't be expensive. Old drum heads sound crappy...
     
  19. B36arin

    B36arin Member

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    Yeah, I'd definitely change at least the batter heads on the snare and toms. That doesn't have to be THAT expensive. Forget about the kick and replace it if you're on a tight budget, since kick heads are a lot more expensive than normal drum heads.
     

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