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Revisiting Old Metallica

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by Soul of Ice, Sep 20, 2003.

  1. Soul of Ice

    Soul of Ice Rusted Angel

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    Lately I've just been listening to a lot of the first four albums from the band before they became poopy.

    Kill em All - very cockrockish metal. I'm not too much a fan of this album except for Seek and Destroy and Four Horsemen which show the future of the band and their glory to come.

    Ride the Lightning - The transition in quality between the first album and this one is mind boggling. Every single song on the album is strong (except for the instrumental not a big fan of instrumentals). Many of the songs I consider to be by far their best.

    Master of Puppets - Many say this is the highpoint in their career, but to me it is not their best effort. True, Master of Puppets may be their best song but some of the other songs on the album leave me with an "eh" feeling.

    ...And Justice for All - Just about every song on this album is awesome with cool song structures and good lyrics throughout.

    Which do I consider best? It is between Ride the Lightning and ...And Justice, but I think Ride edges out just a bit more.

    If you forgot what this band used to sound like, go back and have a listen to how this 80s material does not sound dated at all. Timeless is a good word to describe.
     
  2. Friend of Moloch

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    Thank god somebody finally bothers to look back at their old music! ^_^

    I've been a big fan of their old stuff for a while and I'm sick of people here bitching about Metallica. Sure, pretty much everything after Black sucked (and even a lot on Black) but that's no reason to hate 'em so much. Kirk and James were, and possibly are, good guitarists and Burton, as I hope no one will argue much, was one of the greatest bassists at least in earlier heavy metal.

    Then there's the Napster issue... but there's no need to bring that back in. That's the post-Black Metallica, you can hate them all you want. :p

    (I know not everyone here hates Metallica, I've just seen hostility expressed towards them far too often by some people. I'm always tempted to bring up being close-minded... but everyone's entitled to their opinion even if it sucks :D .)
     
  3. Wyldeyng

    Wyldeyng New Metal Member

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    1000 years from now, people will still be buying those albums.
     
  4. Mr. Shred-ididle

    Mr. Shred-ididle Its Chinese-Tilt ya' head

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  5. theodyssey

    theodyssey Best Album of the Year

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    I sure as hell won't. Metallica has some good songs... no wait, MUSTAINE has some good songs. Master of Puppets has some good metallica songs, but they are crap. And i have to say i'm sick of everyone saying Cliff is so goddamn great because he's really not. There are much better bassists since him, as well as before him. Just cause he died... not trying to be insensitive, but honest. I can do most all of his shit and i am not even that great. Give me new stuff because they have never been good. And pretty much everything they have done that could have been decent, lars ruins because he is such a shitty drummer.
     
  6. Friend of Moloch

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    Okay.
     
  7. Hyoukinmono

    Hyoukinmono Real Man

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    I thought that "Kill 'Em All" was a decent NWOBHM release, but all of the good elements from that album went to Megadeth instead of continuing in Metallica. After that, Metallica really didn't have anything to add to the music scene, except for their ability to promote themselves. They were only original if you hadn't really heard that much metal, or were limited to radio metal.

    I always thought that it was funny that so many kids thought that Metallica was so intense, and that the members of the band were so rebellious and all that. That was the image Metallica marketed, though, and they did it well.

    For a lot of kids, though, Metallica was the heaviest thing that they had ever heard. And for some, it was Metallica that got them into metal, so I guess there is that good point. As far as musical quality, though, it was never really there. Pretty much everything was derivative and uninteresting if you had heard a fairly wide range of bands. There were SO many REALLY great albums being released during those same years, but Metallica was the band that was able to sell their image the best.

    And, yeah, I was surprised when I started hearing about how great Cliff Burton was. He was competent, but that's about it. When someone dies, nostalgia has a tendency to romanticize the life and talents of the person. (You'd think that Kurt Cobain was some kind of god instead of a whiney, low-life, unbathed rip-off artist.)

    I'm not saying that Metallica was a totally crappy band. In the early days they were a decent metal band. Their legendary status is definitely not due to musical talent, though. "St. Anger" is legendary in a different, way, though. A very, very, very comical way...

    I understand the nostalgia that a lot of people have for Metallica, especially now for their old stuff since that abomination "St. Wanker" was released. But I was never really impressed in the first place, so when I look back on the early/mid-80s, there are plenty of other bands that I think of as highlights of the era before I think of Metallica.

    Don't even get me started on Girly-boy (Lars).
     
  8. MorphineChild205

    MorphineChild205 Lt. Horatio Caine

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    As far as I'm concerned, Metallica only released three GREAT albums (Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and ...And Justice For All). My favorite is Justice, mainly because of the longer song lengths and more-than-usual-for-Metallica detailed parts. However, a bass guitar would've made the album even better!

    In my opinion, Kill 'Em All was immature thrash crap. The few songs I remember being decent (The Four Horsemen, Phantom Lord and No Remorse) were no masterpieces.

    I also agree that Cliff Burton was overrated. He died a tragic death, and was therefore immortalized. I'm not knocking the guy - he's easily the most talented man to have ever been in Metallica (next to Dave Mustaine). He brought the classical feel to Metallica's second and third albums, which I liked a lot. But when a well-known musician dies, everyone thinks they were MUCH better than they really were. Hell, look at Kurt Cobain and Jimi Hendrix.

    The black album was half decent. It some good tunes and some horrible ones. But overall, I'd say it was better than average.

    Give me all the shit you want, but I've always thought Load and ReLoad were pretty solid albums. They were no Puppets or Justice (or even the black album), but they had their high moments. I didn't like many of the shorter, bluesy songs, but I've always liked Until it Sleeps, Bleeding Me, The House Jack Built, The Outlaw Torn and Fixxxer.

    I also enjoyed S&M. I'm aware that the composer (I forget his name at the moment) could've written much more complicated parts over Metallica's music, but I still thought it was done very well. I was just glad that there was something out there that could make some of Metallica's songs GOOD for a change.

    Their new album, of course, is awful. There was one song on there that had potential (near the end), but it was ruined by James' voice, Lar$'s drum sound, and the lack of a guitar solo.

    In conclusion, I think they're done for. They're just a fad now, and they'll wither off into nothingness in a few years (just like all the other nu-metal bands).
     
  9. Friend of Moloch

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    The composer of S&M was Michael Kamen, one of my all time favorites. He's done a lot with metal and a lot in movies.

    Keep in mind, people, I never said anything about Burton's or Metallica's talent. I should be a little more clear when I say "good" or "great" but I didn't mean talented. If it weren't for Metallica and Megadeth, I might very well not be listening to metal today. However, I still say they did have some talent. That's Hetfield, Hammet, and Burton. And, of course, Mustaine but he's better off with Megadeth. Was. Megadeth's basically done.
     
  10. karelrulez

    karelrulez Member

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    I like all Metallica albums. No, really.
     
  11. †Russel Allen†®

    †Russel Allen†® The King of Terrors

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    My Metallica age comes until the black album. Man, those were good times... I spent a lot of time playing my brand new guitar, trying to play all Metallica songs, along with the CD-player... those were definitely good times... but now Metallica sounds like a brit-pop shitty band, and it gives me no more pleasure of listening to it! I have all Metallica CDs until S&M, and the Load and ReLoad ones are getting mold... hahahah!!

    I hate the new Metallica, unfortunatelly... but I didn't lose the pleasure of listening to the good ol' 'Tallica... and that's what matters... I believe that all the technical stuff about a band like Metallica is out of the question... or you want to compare Kirk Hammett with Michael Romeo?! Despite of that, Metallica used to make good music in the past.
     
  12. Prismatic Sphere

    Prismatic Sphere We Carouse

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    I was a Metallica fan for 10 years(1985-1995). They were one of the first bands that first got me into metal; although Iron Maiden was right there too. I'd still be into metal if I hadn't listened to them. Rush, Maiden, and Ozzy were more than enough of an intro into the foray. But I was a HUGE fan. I could've recited the lyrics to any song on their first 4 albums drunk and at gunpoint. I actually rather like Jame's lyrics on their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th albums- very pro-liberty. The songs in general could've been labeled as some of the first "progressive thrash"; although there was still very much of that around at the time. I like what they did with the imagery and musical influence of Venom and Diamond Head and in particular when they incorporated Cliff Burton's huge Rush influence and exceptional harmonies-around-a-bass talent which I believe equates with Steve Harris'.

    But that all ended with the death and the last gasp of any talent they had on ...And Justice For All. Then they went to Bob Cock to try to sound more commercial. During an interview with a European Magazine, when the interviewer pointed out to a pontificating, spewing Lars that the sole reason why many bands use Bob Cock's services was for chart position, the spoiled little prick Danish "drummer" kept silent with a shit-eating smirk on his face.

    These are probably the most truthful and upfront as well as revealing quotes from Lars that you'll ever see:

    "I haven't had a shower for three days, man. I've only just thought about it. I think it's got something to do with success; the more succesful you are, the less you feel like washing."

    and

    "I've got all the money I need. I could retire tomorrow if I wanted to. It's not about money anymore. :lol: (Are you ready?) It's about egos; I wanna go out there and be the biggest band in the world and sell more records than anyone else. And I'm not gonna compromise that for anything."

    -Lars Ulrich, 1992
    *(Taken from 'Metallica: In Their Own Words', 1994 Omnibus Press)

    'Kay buddy. Only in it for the fame and not the money, what a sport!
    But seriously, if they actually started to expand on what they learned from Cliff's classical training and music theory and went and learned and actually studied music, (and Lars could've taken that time to learn how to really play drums, omigod!) and further developed their ideas; then they might still have been a band or became a band to be reckoned with.

    When all of the disgusting trends of the nineties reared their ugly little heads(and they were all disgusting); Metallica could've had the power to dispel that hideous vapor with one fell opus swoop and straight-ahead rock and roll might have survived on the front lines.

    Instead what did we get?
    Cashwhores and shrewd marketers.
    "We're the alternative to alternative." - Kirk Hammett :lol:
    But musicians? As in people who stay true to themselves and their art.....?

    Let me run it by you this way:

    Cashtallica/Alternica/Selloutica would've had all the money they would've ever needed and retained their integrity as well if they just had pulled a Grateful Dead; that is, just toured endlessly off of their first four albums and not made anymore.

    Fuck Lars Ulrich. Fuck James too. Fuck Metallica. Your corpse is rotting over 10 years old.
     
  13. Zax666

    Zax666 The Prince Of Ice. Almost

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    Hmm...

    I did the same thing a week ago and concluded that the early Metallica albums were NOTHING more than avarage.
     
  14. The Stormbringer

    The Stormbringer www.Metal1.info

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    I do think "Master of Puppets" is their best effort. "Ride the Lightning" and "...and Justice for all" are joint second, can´t really decide which one´s better.
     
  15. Platinum Maze

    Platinum Maze Random Star

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    I think where this thread divides depends on two things.

    1- How old you were when the first 4/5 albums were released
    2- How much you're into thrash metal

    I was 16 when RTL was released and it was the album that got me into thrash (Show No Mercy also). I had heard a couple tunes from KTA at the time, but RTL made me realize how big this band was going to be. When MoP came out, it finished off a perfect trilogy of thrash albums IMO. Although I will admit that KTA sounds a bit dated now, and maybe isn't as timeless as the other two. That being said, I still love every song from those three albums. If you're not into thrash, or too young to remember how special this stuff was at the time it was being released, I can understand why people would say that the first 3 are not so special. And for the record, Cliff was a great bass player. He kept them heavy, and he kept them hungry. And except for AJFA, they have lacked both since his death.

    AJFA was another great album, but I was never completely happy with the production. Being a Flotsam & Jetsam fan at the time Jason (loved his playing & writing) jumped ship and went to Metallica, I was very pissed that his bass playing for the most part was inaudible. I also never really liked Lars' triggered drum sound on that album. Too fake, especially the bass drums. And it has spawned a lot of conversation whether or not he even plays those double bass fills on Blackened & Dyers' Eve. The guitar and the vocals, however, never sounded better!!

    I thought the Black Album was great too, although if I never hear Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters again, I won't be that upset. Very few weak tracks though. I love the last 4 songs!

    They started to lose me with Load. I like the songs MorphineChild mentioned before as well as a few others (Ain't My Bitch, 2 X 4). I think I got through Re-Load once or twice. Didn't like it. And I don't care for St Anger either.

    I think Master of Puppets is their best, and right behind is Ride The Lightning.

    I'd also like to add that the Mercyful Fate medley and Astronomy from Garage, Inc. are two of my favorite covers ever.
     
  16. crapola

    crapola Member

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    do you mean 10 years, or is my math ability that bad, lol!!!
     
  17. Demonspell

    Demonspell cheating the polygraph

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    My Metallica fandom officially ended with Load, and my disgust with their hypocrisy has escalated ever since.
     
  18. The Metal Chick

    The Metal Chick In the Dragon's Den

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    Metallica gets all the credit for getting me into metal. I played Master of Puppets, And Justice for All, and the black album over and over...even Reload got played for a long time. I bought everything Metallica, and still have numerous posters hanging in my room.

    Now I loathe them. I don't even care how good those early albums were, I hate them. Never again will I listen to them at will. Time to get rid of those posters...
     
  19. crapola

    crapola Member

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    meanwhile, i'm sitting here at work with one of my many metallica tshirts on....
     
  20. DestrwidoR

    DestrwidoR Erunér - One of The Seven

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    Man, but, you know, Dream Theater recorded Master Of Puppets,, and it show that before all these crappy things Metallica was a good band!
     

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