This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Scatch Tracks

Discussion in 'Bar' started by scorpio01169, Dec 18, 2014.

  1. scorpio01169

    scorpio01169 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    Saw this in another forum and thought I'd see what you guys do,

    Are you guys trying to nail the parts on the scratch track or does the performance on your ST not matter? Have you ever done a ST good enough to keep as the keeper track?
     
  2. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    4,623
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Poconos, PA
    I hate doing scratch tracks. Sloppy scratch tracks seem to make drummers play worse.

    The time it takes to track a tight scratch could easily be put into a keeper take, for me, anyhow.

    Buuuut on the other hand I could see how it can come in handy while tracking an entire band so you can break up recording duties between the members.
     
  3. Jordon

    Jordon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago
    Performance matters, but it does not have to be perfect. I find, if you haven't had time for proper preproduction, scratching out guitar, bass, and even vocals, can be a great tool for making sure the band members actually know what they're doing. It also allows you to do some minor arrangement tweaks before drums are laid down, and allows you to hear what the drums are doing in-context, which is very important to me.
     
  4. Trevoire520

    Trevoire520 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,055
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    I always do a scratch guitar track, if you don't then the drummer inevitably plays one part too short/long. Doesn't have to be perfect but can't be totally sloppy shit.
     
  5. Pharaoh's Curse

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I have done solo stuff on scratches that I kept in the final. It's not uncommon.
     
  6. ~BURNY~

    ~BURNY~ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    5,096
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    When planned ahead

    1 They are a great way to get to know the songs
    2 They are a great way for me to evaluate the level of musicianship or spot structure problems and give advice if needed
    3 They allow the drummer to practice the whole songs to a click on his own and get used to tempo changes

    They don't have to be perfect but they have to be consistent with the click. It's a good idea to shift them slightly after the click though so it doesn't feel weird/rushed when recording the drums.
     
  7. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Yeah the problem with scratch tracks is that they are usually done to fast. It should be a good performance but doesn't have to be perfect. I've sometimes used midi tracks which the band has brought with them, and with a drummer used to play with midi backgrounds it works great. They are on grid and consistent.
     
  8. Line666

    Line666 Fendurr

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,343
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Maybe I'm just a weirdo but I always just do guitars first instead - if the scratches are done quick then it can throw the drummer off and if they're done right you might as well keep em and reamp later.

    I dunno if theres any major downsides of doing it this way tbh.
     
  9. ~BURNY~

    ~BURNY~ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    5,096
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The feel of the guitars played to the click rather than the drums unless you hard quantize everything off course.
     
  10. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    In this day and age, when people think they can figure things out in the studio I've actually been recording the real drums last. Just recorded every instrument and vocals to midi drums. It's much easier to get a good overview on the song and it really helps putting an end of bad drummer ruining a good song. I hate drummers, but most of all i hate bassist. But atleast they won't ruin a good chorus with going bajakas with crazy syncopes and stupid unmotivated fills...
     
  11. Line666

    Line666 Fendurr

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,343
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yeah I'm looking for everything to be fairly tight to the grid anyway - I try to use varying tempo measures dependent on song part to reintroduce a sense of pace - I find if stuff isn't tight to the bar for feel its easy to notice on some notes but pacing movement over several bars is more natural sounding if that makes sense?

    I think it introduces more feel than a static tempo anyway and guitarists generally have a better feel for the pace of the song than drummers because they are the ones that usually wrote it.
     
  12. Mago

    Mago Austrian Blech Machine

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,687
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    Yeah I also like to track guitars first. Thats when guitar pro comes in handy, when the band has tabbed out all the instruments. Just drop the midi drums in and track to that.

    IMO if it is that important to not track to a click and keep the feel of the band, then you have to record the bulk of the instruments in a live session anyway, and not via overdubbing.
    The feel should come from the band in the room, not from only the drummer. At least I never came across a band where the feel only relied on the drummers groove, usually it's an interaction of the band as a whole.
     
  13. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    5,404
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Montpellier, France
    I'm lucky enough to have found an incredible bassist, and planning to work with an incredible drummer as well, but I'm guessing what Crillemannen is saying is true.

    From own music I have recorded my real scratch tracks almost as precisely as I would the real product, edited and everything, bass included. If time is not an issue, it's just worth it. No need for sound quality, I'd say the groove and editing is the most important thing !
     
  14. Fredrik-Ablaze

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Sweden


    What instrument did you say you were playing in JD Miller? ;)

    With my band we usually dont use scratch tracks at all, either we record everything live or the drummer plays the song by himself to a metronome.
     
  15. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Bass god damit!!! Haha!! I need to bring some order to that god forsaken instrument!
     
  16. Nuno Filipe

    Nuno Filipe You talkin' to me?

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,717
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Portugal
    Man I am too lazy even to record good takes for final takes cant even imagine recording scratch tracks. But they can be quite useful, specially to hear if the riffs work within certain conditions, tempos, signatures.
     
  17. wishtheend

    wishtheend clip the apex

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,013
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    SL, UT
    Last few projects I will record a "keeper" DI take of the main guitar/rhythm (no leads unless drummer needs it). And render it out with amp sim as the scratch and then once drums are done. Add 2nd guitar/leads, dual/quad track where needed and then reamp at the end.
     
  18. abt

    abt BT

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,418
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I use MIDI guitar scratch tracks.
     
  19. Arsenu,

    Arsenu, Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Sloppy scratch tracks tend to confuse and do more harm than as well as end up being muted during tracking in my experience.
    Respect your scratch tracks and they shall respect you.
     
  20. schwinginbatman

    schwinginbatman It's shittay!

    Joined:
    May 14, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kansas
    The closest thing I do to "scratch" tracks are the demos one band does as demonstrations of the material. We record to them as well. In that case, I try to get pretty good takes, but if there are a couple little errors here and there I'm not too miffed, and the solos tend to be improvised messes.
     

Share This Page