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Socialism... one step away from communism

Discussion in 'Billy Milano' started by Hawng, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. Hawng

    Hawng Internationaly known

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    Since the Great Black hope has taken office, he has given money to banks, car manufactures and other financial businesses. It only seems fair to assume that when these company's finally fail, they will be taken over by the government in hopes of getting the money invested into them, back. So when the government owns banks, it seems to me that they will be in control of how we spend and use our money. When they own the car manufacturers, the government will be able to determine what we drive... the beginning of Socialism, which in turn will eventually lead to Communism.

    Discuss...
     
  2. Hell_Awaits

    Hell_Awaits One more for the road

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    What makes you think the government is going to own the banks and car manufacturers?
     
  3. Hawng

    Hawng Internationaly known

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    Why wouldnt they? Just a hypothetical scenario... more of a what if to stimulate discussion
     
  4. T_man357

    T_man357 Locked & Loaded

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    Don't they already have the controlling stake in GM? (Isn't there an "Automotive Czar" ? I think there is)

    And I thought I read somewhere not too long ago that the gov't was discouraging banks that took bailout money from paying it back too fast.

    I could be mistaken on the top but am pretty sure about this one cause it struck me strange that a nation going bankrupt would be discouraging anyone from paying back a loan in a timely fashion.
     
  5. SueNC

    SueNC Southern born, metal bred

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    there most definitely is a 'car czar.' there's also a 'pay czar' an 'internet czar' and a few others. these are all unelected people, accountable only to the dark lord, Obama.
    you're also correct in that he didnt want banks to pay the government back. some even tried to refuse the bailouts and were FORCED to take the money [same with some states].
    the nation has been dumbed down to the point that we have no collective will nor foresight to stand up against this kind of republic-killing attack.

    i saw a black comedian on TV last night and he spoke nothing but absolute truth. he said he voted for Obama because he was black. no other reason. he said when somebody said to him that you should vote for somebody because of the right reasons he told them he didnt care about the right reasons. he just wanted to get a black man in office so they could say a black man was president. after that, then they'd worry about getting the right person in office.
    unfortunately, that attitude has given us our first affirmative action president and he's completely incompetent.
    while i dont think John McCain would have been much better, he definitely couldnt have done a worse job.

    personally, i've been exploring the platform of the Constitution party, but i dont think a third party can crack the hold of the 'big 2' just yet. they need to start showing their potential at local and state levels, then let that give them the momentum to go after the bigger prize.

    the real question is, will they even get the chance? with the record speed that Emperor Obama is changing our political landscape, wiping his feet on our Constitution, giving away our nation by way of increasing debt, and a bill has been put forth to abolish the 22nd amendment [which puts term limits on the presidency], we may not get a chance to vote this horrible mistake out of office. it's probably gonna take a military coup to return our nation to what it once was.
     
  6. Hawng

    Hawng Internationaly known

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    Socialism : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done (taken from Websters Dictionary)

    Look at the USSR aka Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. A group of "states", they stared out as socialist and evolved in to Communist. Its right there in history.
     
  7. Hell_Awaits

    Hell_Awaits One more for the road

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    How could they be a communist state when the defintion of a communist state is:
    Communism (from Latin: communis = "common") is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general.

    Stateless society describes a society without a government.


    They never reached that state nor has anyother country.

    What I find ironic is that alot of pro small government conservatives are terrified of turning into a communist society and yet the very definition of a communist society is one with no government, it does'nt get much smaller than that.

    Communism is a pipe dream that will never happen on a large scale, only in small tribal communites.
    Why anyone is scared of communism is beyond me.
     
  8. Hell_Awaits

    Hell_Awaits One more for the road

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    "While the government hadn't intended for firms to pay back their TARP money so quickly, legislation passed by Congress earlier this year required they be allowed to do so. Before getting the green light, banks had to prove they could raise money in the private sector without backing from a Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. program. The Federal Reserve also had to agree that banks could continue to lend without TARP money and retain adequate capital levels."

    Heres the rest of the article.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124450458046896047.html
     
  9. Hawng

    Hawng Internationaly known

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    Read that whole Wiki on communism and how it formed.

    There is no way any country could survive with no government, people are sheep that need to be led. How far would any nation go with no leaders?

    That and Wikipedia is infamous for incorrect information and bias opinion.

    Communist russia... The government fed the people, told the people what where and who they worked for, told people where they could live, where they could go. It wasnt a land of opportunity. Mostly it was run by the military for the strength of the nation. No freedom. You did what you were told to do, and if you didnt, you paid for it. Much like China and North Korea present day, both communist nations, maybe not communist in word for word definition.... Bottom line it means no freedom.
     
  10. Hawng

    Hawng Internationaly known

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    [​IMG]

    WTF?
     
  11. Hell_Awaits

    Hell_Awaits One more for the road

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    WTF is right. I dont have a subscription to the WSJ. I just found the link to the article on google.

    In anycase I copied and pasted the article below if you still want to read it.



    The Treasury Department expects an initial payback from the nation's largest banks of at least $50 billion in bailout funds, according to people familiar with the matter, double the amount the government initially expected to recoup.

    MarketWatch Hot Stocks: TARP News Hits Financials
    1:00
    Many financials were higher after the government said a group of 10 financial companies could pay back the government money they took to see them through the worst of the credit crunch. (June 9)
    In addition, Treasury officials are expected to announce Tuesday that up to nine of the biggest banks have approval to repay their Troubled Asset Relief Program funds, these people said.

    The $50 billion of repayments is the latest sign of improvement in the banking sector. At the same time, many of the banks repaying their TARP funds are expected to continue using other government assistance programs, such as the Federal Reserve's financing facilities.

    View Full Image

    Bloomberg

    Robert Kelly, chief executive of Bank of New York Mellon
    Many banks needed the government's help last October, when the financial system was teetering on the edge of collapse. As market conditions have begun to stabilize, banks have been able to raise tens of billions of dollars from private sources and have begun looking to escape from under the government's thumb.

    While some big banks will be allowed to repay, the Treasury doesn't believe things have improved enough that the money won't be needed elsewhere. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has said he plans to reuse returned TARP funds to assist other firms, including smaller banks, including those that have already received an initial TARP infusion.

    The list of large financial firms expected to get the green light on repayment includes American Express Co., Bank of New York Mellon Corp., Capital One Financial Corp., Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.

    On Monday, several big banks either declined to comment on the Treasury Department's expected announcement or said they hadn't been notified of the government's approval to repay their TARP funds.

    A handful of community banks are also expected to soon repay their TARP funds. Already, about 22 banks have taken steps to repay TARP, returning about $1.8 billion to the government.

    The timing of the paybacks will be up to the individual banks and the Treasury, which must determine how to deal with warrants the government received as part of its initial investment. The warrants gave the government the right to purchase common stock at a set price for a period of 10 years. The Treasury is discussing how to value the warrants and could ultimately choose to sell them into the private market.

    More
    Opinion: Making Failure an Option While the government hadn't intended for firms to pay back their TARP money so quickly, legislation passed by Congress earlier this year required they be allowed to do so. Before getting the green light, banks had to prove they could raise money in the private sector without backing from a Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. program. The Federal Reserve also had to agree that banks could continue to lend without TARP money and retain adequate capital levels.

    Banks have been able to raise money in part because of government-performed stress tests that assessed the capital cushions at the nation's 19 largest banks. The tests showed banks' exposure to various assets, such as real estate, and how they would fare if economic conditions worsened. Nine of those banks were judged not to need to bolster their capital, while another 10 were told to improve their capital position.

    Many banks have been eager to repay TARP in part to show investors they are healthy enough not to need government assistance. But many are uncomfortable with the restrictions that come with the government's investment, including on pay, dividends and stock buybacks.

    Separately, the Federal Reserve Monday gave an initial nod to the 10 banks that were ordered to raise more capital as a result of the stress tests. The Fed said the plans submitted by firms including Citigroup Inc., Bank of America Corp., Morgan Stanley and others were adequate and showed the firms are on course to raise the funds they need to survive and keep lending if the economy keeps worsening.

    The 10 banking organizations "have all submitted capital plans that, if implemented, would provide sufficient capital to meet the required buffer under the assessment's more-adverse scenario," the Fed said.
     
  12. Hell_Awaits

    Hell_Awaits One more for the road

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    None of nations you listed above are communist, by the defintiton that you posted.

    Which was:
    "a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably"

    The state has not/did not wither away in any of those countries.


    How do you equate communism with no freedom. Russia has moved to capitalism, or some form of it, as has China. Both have limited freedoms.
    North Korea is a totalitarian state.
     
  13. EerieVon

    EerieVon Member

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    I agree, communism in its pure form does not equate no freedom, Stalinist Communism (or Stalinism) on the other hand does
     
  14. johnnieCzech

    johnnieCzech Your favourite Czech

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    Well even in the "communist block" in Europe, or how it was called, there never was a "communism", even though they all said the "socialism" is kind of a transfer station. Communism is an utopia - a state in which you, for example, don't need money and stuff. In other words, complete bullshit. The only thing you get while reaching this state is poverty, famine, oppression and massive amounts of dead people.
    When I was born, the communist had eleven years left in this country. It still sucked ass but it was kind of better than, let's say, in the fifties or in the seventies.
     

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