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Some help with extreme metal snare?

Discussion in 'Practice Room' started by P-Keisari, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. P-Keisari

    P-Keisari New Metal Member

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    Hi guys! I'm kinda newbie here so I'm not quite sure if I'm at the right forum right now. I could really use some help on mixing death metal snare drum. I have this death metal mix thing going on and I can't really get the snare to pop out. The raw sound of the snare is pretty metallic, kind of "ringy" and "clangy", which I like, but my problem is, that if I want the snare to ring I get a whole lot of cymbal bleed, which kind of sucks. The snare is pretty dynamic of course, because no one can blast 280bpm and hit with the same velocity as in the slow 150bpm parts. I have tried gating the snare, but too much gating kills the clang and too less just bleeds too much. Low-passing the snare hushes the cymbals pretty ok, but it doesn't do that much good on the snare itself. It makes the snare sound like someone playing it somewhere far away, instead of in-your-face. Of course, when mixing metal like this, heavy compression on pretty much everything is quite usual, but as you can imagine, it digs out the bleed even more. So there's my problem. I can upload some samples for you later today.
     
  2. Adee

    Adee Member

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    Hey dude,
    Check my latest mix out. If you like the snare I'll write how its been processed step by step.
    Cheers!

     
  3. P-Keisari

    P-Keisari New Metal Member

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    Thank you for your reply! That is a really nice snare! The sound I'm looking for is not that damped though. I'm trying to achieve something more clangy and sustained. I would still appreciate it very much if you could tell me how you made your sound, because I think the attack is great. The sound is really clean and professional.
     
  4. rapucore

    rapucore i really hate spiders

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    There's all sorts of parallel processing stuff you could do to maybe get the result you're looking for. Clips would be nice, so a better diagnose could be made :lol:

    PS. Morjens :kickass:
     
    #4 rapucore, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
  5. Another Guitar Dude

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    @Adee It would be nice if you can write a few lines about how you approached the snare sound in that mix.

    @P-Keisari Some samples would be cool.
     
  6. P-Keisari

    P-Keisari New Metal Member

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    I can upload some clips later today. Right now I'm at work and I don't have access to my files.

    @rapucore Terve! :kickass:
     
  7. P-Keisari

    P-Keisari New Metal Member

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    The only clip I had available on my work PC right now was this one. This one has all the tracks (except vocals) though, but the drums (especially snare) are pretty loud on the mix, so maybe you can get the idea. Nothing is processed here, except that the bass drum is triggered.

    edit: Perhaps you can't really hear it on this clip, but the snare is actually quite ringy when compressed.
     

    Attached Files:

    #7 P-Keisari, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
  8. rapucore

    rapucore i really hate spiders

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    Nice! I get some slight Nile - Those Whom The Gods Detest feels from this. The snare is a bit loud to my tastes. I'd lower the overall volume just a tad and maybe add some parallel compression and some Pultec-style fattening, not too much though.

    The whole track sounded quite good as is, not too much to stress about IMHO.
     
  9. Adee

    Adee Member

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    Mixing popping out, cracking snare was always the worst nightmare for me till I 100% understood how EQ and compressors works.
    To mix god, punchy snare you need more than one snare sound. Its a suicide to work on one snare sample, endlessly EQ-ing it, compressing, doing black (or white) magic and at the end we have a crap… (not crack… yet) :D

    Triggering, parallel compression and… yes LAYERING! This is far better than shaping one snare sample.
    After this processes I’m sure your snare will be punchy and go through the wall of guitars and vocals.


    Snare process I made in BFMV mix:

    I didn’t use outboard distressor and EQ this time so all drums are digital only.

    SD2 Metal Machine (IMO the best “metal pack”) - just one snare sample 7x14 Tama John Tempesta Sig Serries
    Chain: transient designer + compressor
    Snare goes to DRUMS BUSS MIX where subtle EQ and limiter have been used
    + 4 sends on snare channel (see below)

    SEND: Parallel compression (only snare, kick and toms) goes to drums mix
    SEND: Snare trigger - Mapex MPX Steel 14x5.5 sample 50/50: Chain: EQ + compressor + transient designer + reverb goes directly to master channel
    SEND: I call it "snare hype” (it gives extra kick to the snare sound): compressor + EQ (you can control what part of freq will be hyped) goes directly to master channel
    SEND: reverb goes directly to master channel

    Quick edit - i missed bottom snare mic
    Bottom mic goes to drums mix. It adds that nice crack sound
    Chain: noise gate (to get rig of kick drum sound) + compressor + EQ + compressor

    All of that I have written isn't a "how to" or some kind of guide. Its just an "image" how do I process the snare sound in this song. Using that settings in another mix would be completely useless. Each song = different process and work individually on every part of the whole mix.

    Hope it helps!

    Stay metal!
     
    #9 Adee, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
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  10. rapucore

    rapucore i really hate spiders

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    I imagined the snare in the example to be live miced signal with bleed and all, not a sample.

    And yes, while it helps to layer different samples, you can process one source (be it sample or live) to sound the way you want, given that the source already is somewhat the sound you're looking for.

    Several parallel compressors with different settings will shape the source to whatever needed, if you know what to do.

    Useful reminder: the same processing used on samples might not work on a dynamic recorded signal with bleed and everything. With samples you can process to hell without worrying about bleed and such.
     
  11. P-Keisari

    P-Keisari New Metal Member

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    Hello again! Sorry it's been so long since my last comment. Been quite busy lately. I managed to achieve exactly the tone I was hoping for. And here's how I did it:

    So, I had three snare tracks; two mic'd from the top towards the center of the skin and one for the bottom sound. As I said before, the mics were picking pretty (too) much cymbals, especially the ones on the top and that made the mixing quite difficult, since I really couldn't boost the higher "popping", "whacking" and "ringing" frequencies of the snare without boosting the cymbal hiss as well. First of all I just tried to get the snare tracks sound as good as possible without worrying about the hiss. Then I made a sample of that snare from a part without any cymbals and triggered the track. I used the sample sound only to boost up the highs, because the lows and mids of the snare itself were good. I scooped down the mids and the lows from the trigger track to keep it natural. I didn't want it so sound like a drum machine. Then I turned down the high frequencies from the original track and there it was. Great sound. Of course I used some gates etc. as well, but that was the key of getting that sound without too much bleed. Now the snare sounds pretty natural and it has the attack and tightness I was hoping for. I used the triggered track also to control the gate (side-chaining), so it only opens when you hit the snare.

    Thank you so much for your help. I try to get some samples next weekend, but cannot promise anything.
     

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