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Something Must Have Come From Nothing...

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Liverslapper, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. Liverslapper

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    The world was only a small planet in space. But where did space come from? could anything have always existed? Surely everything that exists must have had a beginning?

    As some point, something must have come from nothing....but what about god himself?

    Even though God could create all kinds of things, he could hardly create himself before he had a "self" to create with.

    So saying this... do you feel right living in the world without at least inquiring where it came from?



    Discuss
     
  2. JenniferGentle

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    I always think about this Steve. And it freaks me out actually. Of course it had to come from something. I don't know how to really express this idea clearly, but if you keep taking things away, and going back farther and farther in time to when there was less and less, how could there have ever been nothing?

    What was nothing? A void? But a void is still something? A freak out.
     
  3. Liverslapper

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    Which leads to the "something must have come from nothing...". I doubt we will ever know what that something was or how it came to be. Some people believe it was "big bang" some people believe in what the bible has to say about god "creating the heavens and the earth" and strictly believe that is how everything came to be. I don't see how people can believe that, and not knowing where this "god" came from.

    You have a good point Jen. What is nothing? If we know of what nothing is, how did it come to be? It troubles me to not know these questions, but with each "possible" theory or answer brings more questions, which is why i have loved to study philosophy for the past 3 years.
     
  4. JenniferGentle

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    I know ugh, now I've been contemplating it since I read your first post about it Steve haha
     
  5. judas69

    judas69 god is in the radio

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    Everything came from a void, a perfect neutrality. But it neither came, nor went, it happened so fast it never happened. Remember, time and space are themselves illusions, a product of this illusion.

    Thank you for listening. I hope you're better people now.
     
  6. 10293847

    10293847 Member

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    I guess the first thing to say would be that there is no right or wrong here, obviously. Maybe this is why the cosmos are so interesting to many. It is the beginning and end of everything, including our imaginations.

    For me, one way that I look at this topic is to place my existence, and it's rules, outside of space. Just because I live and seemingly die (who the hell knows, really?) doesn't mean that everything else does. I don't see why space couldn't have always existed.

    I think ultimately for me, there is no such thing as nothing. Nothing is only nothing when compared to the idea of it's absence. It's an idea more than anything else. We only miss something when we have experienced it's non-existence. Outer Space could have always been, and for me, the idea of it not existing is daunting to say the least...
     
  7. JBroll

    JBroll I MIX WITH PHYSICS!!!!

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    1: You're assuming that 'nothing' is a more natural state than 'something'; this is itself in great need of more detail.

    2: 'Something' does come from 'nothing' all the time - quantum mechanics hates you.

    3: Wanting answers is good, but don't ever let yourself want an answer so badly you'll take a false statement over no statement at all. Be careful, ESPECIALLY when posting philosophical discussions on the internet.

    Jeff
     
  8. SouthernTrendkill

    SouthernTrendkill Super Normie

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    For me personally, it doesn't matter. Things are the way they are, and I don't think that knowing how the universe started would help me out in any way. It's just not important.

    Frankly, I don't understand how everything around me (myself included) is made up of tiny little particles that are all constantly vibrating and they're all seperate from each other and there's blank space inbetween... and yet, nothing around me appears to be moving what-so-ever. There's countless concepts far more in-depth than that which I don't understand and yet they are taken to be true. So I'm not worried about out-there questions that I can't answer. I'm sure there's an answer out there. Either way, it doesn't change what I'm doing.
     
  9. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    Everything is as it was, and everything shall be as it is.

    Before our universe existed there was a different one that collapsed; and when our universe dies, another shall take its place...
     
  10. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    The concept of 'absolute nothing' doesn't really allow for anything to arise from it as far as I see... for something to arise from nothing, is for the nothing to have been something in the first place. I think your initial premise is flawed.
     
  11. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    Unless by a power beyond our understanding.

    But I agree with you; and I think that to bring such a power into the argument will get us nowhere, because it's really impossible to argue such an idea.
     
  12. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    'A power beyond our understanding' is hardly 'nothing' in any sense of the term.
     
  13. JBroll

    JBroll I MIX WITH PHYSICS!!!!

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    It also raises more questions than it settles, and on top of that is designed to bypass the same limitation that must be placed on reality to warrant its introduction.

    Jeff
     
  14. Thoth-Amon

    Thoth-Amon Hypochondriac

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    I wrestle with these kinds of issues constantly... and always end up confused and frustrated. It's at times like these that you just got to say "Fuck it!" and put on some Slayer.
     
  15. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    I would say that's incorrect. If it's "beyond our understanding" then it stands to reason that we have no rational means of explaining it (it's almost a paradox). It would exist outside of our universe, and wouldn't fit into any category of language or physical reality.
     
  16. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Its always good to remember from where you came but digging back that far is so irrelevent its a pathetic waste of brain cells. Where we are going tomorrow is ultimately the important ponderance.
     
  17. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Yet still, if such a 'power' somehow caused there to be 'something', even if it is 'beyond our understanding', we are still forced to acknowledge it as 'something' in the first place. You can play with linguistic paradox's all you like - ie god is all powerful but can't be existent and non-existent - but 'existent' and 'nothing' are purely human contraptions for understanding, and bear no necessary connection to states of 'reality'. What we deem to be 'nothing' cannot be fulfilled by *something* - even, 'a power beyond our understanding'. If you want to define such a power as 'nothing' then you are just saying it doesn't exist and that you (like me) are babbling :)
     
  18. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    I would say that a power beyond our understanding might be able to be born from nothing. We can't imagine it, but if it is defined as "beyond our understanding" then it's perfectly logical to ponder the possibility that it might very well have been created from "nothing." There's really no way to argue this either way though. Things are beyond our understanding for a reason.
     
  19. JBroll

    JBroll I MIX WITH PHYSICS!!!!

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    I suppose a difference between mathematicians and philosophers is that mathematicians don't accept that something is beyond understanding, which accounts for a big difference between approaches.

    Jeff
     
  20. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    That we can posit the occurrence of such a thing seems to imply that it is not possible for it to be entirely beyond our understanding - you discuss an understanding of the potential existence / facticity of it for starters. Anything entirely beyond our understanding, to the point where we cannot speak of it, may as well be nothing for all the effect it can ever have on us...
     

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