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Spectrasonics Trilian Bass

Discussion in 'Backline' started by abt, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. Sacha

    Sacha Throbbing Member

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    I would save up and get Trilian / bigger hard drive honestly. Hard Core bass is decent but its pretty dated now and no where near as realistic. You can make it sound pretty good with some mixing but Trilian can end up sitting in the mix pretty much just like the real deal. The synth sounds are a huge bonus too if you're into that, some killer shit in there.
     
  2. -J-

    -J- Member

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  3. abt

    abt BT

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    +1
    Listen to this man. I believe he uses Trilian and his stuff sounds killer!
     
  4. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    How does trillian sound for fast machinegun riff parts ? Will it work "on the go" automaticly or do you have to edit the fast parts to make it sound realistic ?
     
  5. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    I'm gonna give it a try with a song in wrote in GP with that kind of riffs and see how it goes. Might sound better than less recent bass SVTis due to the samples quality and built-in round Robin/humanization stuff, but still maybe you still have to edit the parts a bit.

    I'll post some samples when it's done.
     
  6. A.D.I.

    A.D.I. New Metal Member

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    Hey guys,

    I'm interested by the question asked by LeSedna for fast machinegun riff parts... I bought Trilian last week and have some tracks that I tried to program...
    Have you got some tips for fast bass guitar which follows (for example) double bass drum ? I'm not very satisafied with the result... On slower parts it's OK, but for that it's too mechanical, and always have this fucking periodic sequence which is very boring... How do you treat velocities ??? I really need some help on this point, because it's seems not very clear for me...

    Thank you for your help
     
  7. FarizAdili

    FarizAdili Member

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    anyone know, how to make slide in cubase midi editor?

    I can't make fretless bass sounds real

    thank you
     
  8. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    if i have a fast part with doubles (i mean not triplets but twice faster) following each other, i have the first note having the accent over the next 3 ones, and by accent i mean the 3 last ones have a less important velocity than note #1. Just try to picture you playing the part and see how you would hit the strings. A bit similar than how you would do drum rolls kinda.

    I don't edit velocities in the DAW myself, i program the bass part beforehand in Guitar Pro (before exporting them to MIDI), and use the volume/accent features to make them sound realistic.
    That coupled with the Trilian built-in round robin/humanization features do it for me.
     
  9. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    i have a somewhat similar problem, which is that i program bass lines with slides (legato slides and appogiatures mainly) in GuitarPro, and then export the MIDI in my DAW, and Trilian won't play the slides...
    I guess it has something to do with the different articulations/channels in Trilian (i tried exporting the slide parts on a different channel and use another trilian instance (using the "slides" articulation in Trilian for this track) but it didn't play shit), but i still have a hard time to figure out how this works.

    Anyone who does (program bass parts in GP first, export MIDI out, and have it played in DAW by Trilian VSTi) this can help me maybe ?
     
  10. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    Hi guize,

    since i'm using Trilian as a bass VSTi alongside Superior 2.0 for drums, and having noticed how using higher velocities than standard (by standard i mean 100) resulted in a better drums sound (for punchy metal/rock at least), i was wondering what kind of velocity you were using for bass ?

    Do you feel pushing the velocities above standard values was resulting in a better bass tone in the mix ?
     
  11. 006

    006 Member

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    I have never used Trillian but from watching the videos of the guy demo'ing it using a keyboard a long time ago I think there is a note you have to program in (MIDI) that tells it to slide from note x to note x. Best thing I can tell you is to look in the manual though as that's just a guess based on the video I saw.
     
  12. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    Ok thanks that's what i thought... I tried to look at it but it's kinda complicated...

    Not to mention that in the Trilian videos you can see the guy doing this on a MIDI keyboard, but not the MIDI track in the DAW.
    (NB : i use Reaper for now, and i'll use Cubase 5 in the near future)

    From the way i understand things so far (PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M WRONG) :

    the slide notes are a specific "articulation", so when the guy is playing a slide on his keyboard, it means that for this specific note he's switching to the "slide articulation" (as opposed to the regular notes). In Trilian when you use a "multi", you can put the "normal notes" on part (in the Trilian sense) 1 (out of the 8 parts available on one multi : 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8), and put the slides articulations on, say, part 2.
    I use the Hardcore Finger bass in Trilian, and on part 1 i load the Full Ranger bank, and on part 2 the SlideUpDown bank (considering my slides in my GP midi bass tracks are mainly UpDown slides).

    When you import a midi GP bass track with slides and stuff in your DAW, you can either import the midi track on one single track, or import it on several tracks, which seem to be : one track for the "regular notes", and one track for the other articulations (slides and such).
    I thought that doing the latter (importing the midi track on several tracks) and using one instance of Trilian on each track (not too great in terms of performance i know), with the same Trilian preset/multi on both instances (with regular notes on 1, and slides on 2), i would have my second Trilian track/instance playing those slides, but instead it just plays them as regular notes or something.
    So it seems i have to edit the midi slide notes to be considered as "slides" articulations, since they do not automatically translate as such when imported from Guitar Pro.
    I guess it's just one option in the MIDI piano roll that tags the note as "slide articulation", instead of "regular note (full range)", but i've yet to find it. It should basically tell Trilian that this note shoudl be played with Part 2 "SlideUpdown" and not Part 1 "Full Range".

    Too bad it doesn't translate automatically though, especially since i got tons of appogiatures/slides/legato stuff in my bass tracks :) Means tons of editing but if it means a killer bass tone in the end (as it is already with regular notes) i'm ok with that :)

    EDIT : I'll look deeply into that today and test it at home tonight and then post the solution here (provided it works :) )
     
  13. 006

    006 Member

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    In Cubase you can route multiple MIDI tracks to the same instrument, I'm sure Reaper can do this as well. So, try routing both MIDI tracks to the same single instance of Trilian and see if the slide notes make the regular notes slide.
     
  14. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    Thanks ! I'm gonna try that tonight (i didn't know about it by the way). And performance-wise it's better anyway.
     
  15. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    What i've found so far regarding slides in Trilian (i'm gonna create a specific thread for that matter later on) :

    "What i did was load 3 channels
    One was hardcore finger sustain
    One was hardcore finger Gliss(short slide in)
    One was hardcore finger slide out
    Set up a midi track and the the channel output to ANY
    Then started programming and when i wanted a note gliss i set the channel to that specific note in the cubase info bar.
    Really simple to use and its very versatile for all kinds of bass sounds."

    ************
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/69275-Trilian-slide-from-one-note-to-another-how
    "I'm trying to slide from one note to another using the multi patch electric studio bass in live mode.
    I understand that the slides are playing when I use that correct keyswitch, but how do you tell it to stop at another note?
    Can you confirm also it's not possible to have the slides play at a certain tempo?
    One thing I love about Scarbee BB is the fact you can control the tempo of a slide..... really want this feature in Trilian."
    "Start your slide by hitting the starting note while holding down the F key, and then listen and release the F key just before the slide gets to the note you want, and then immeditately hit the ending note you want. Just a matter of learning the playing technique"
    "There's not currently an easy way to exactly simulate every possible slide configuration in Trilian.
    You could achieve that effect by using two midi channels and fading in a slide up from E after the slide up note is triggered with MIDI Volume."
    "There's currently not a way to control the speed of the slides in Trilian. They were recorded and performed at a medium tempo and work well for mid to fast tempos, but not as well for a really slow piece like that. You may want to try the Slide FX menu to find something that fits your slow tempo as there are a wider variety of slide tempos in the FX Slides compared to the multisampled slides."

    ****************
    http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=288534
    "Trying to figure out how to make bass slides in Trilian. Is there a tutorial for this?
    Do I have to load the slides on another channel or can I make the full range samples slide? "
    "It's a keyswitch, isn't it?"
    "It works that way in its older brother, Trilogy.
    You play or set the note to 126 or 127 velocity on your controller (or edit it in your sequencer, that's how I do it), and the slide would kick in on instruments that have that velocity layer.
    You may want to move the midi note forward in time a bit too, or the note will "slide in" and settle to the final pitch a little late. Use your ears and a soloed kick drum to lock it up tight. "

    *****
    http://www.keyboardmag.com/article.aspx?id=109061
    "Within the basic preset, velocities of 127 trigger short, sampled slides up to the note, adding to the playability."
    *********
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/68651-Trilian-Expectations-and-more-Thread
    "As far as I understand, Trilian will have the different playing options through live mode so in order to have all the playing styles available I will need to load different patches and use keyswitching via live mode. I expect ALL the playing features (articulations) available for 1 bass to be loadable on 1 instance of Trilian. What I mean by that is that Trills, hammer on/pull offs, Slaps, slides, whatever else...can all be loaded into 1 instance of Trilian so that playing that 1 instance will produce a fully playable bass."
    "All the key articulations for a bass can be loaded into a single instance of Trilian.
    In fact, most of the articulations for a technique can be loaded into a single part.
    You can arrange how the articulations are switched and setup to customize your own approach (instead of relying on a pre-determined script only). For instance, it's very easy to change articulations with Key switches, Program Changes or MIDI CCs or to change them via velocity and keyboard ranges."

    **********
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2116326
    "I'm wondering if it's possible to make a realistic sounding bass guitar track using MIDI. I'm skeptical because I'm wondering how one could do slides and things like that.

    What would you recommend for someone who doesn't own a bass guitar? In the past, I've made my guitar sound like a bass, and now I'm importing the bass audio track (.wav) from Guitar Pro into Sonar. It's not bad, but I just can't make it ballsy enough for my taste. I'm recording mostly metal. "
    "what I would really like to do is to just use the bass track from Guitar Pro, since I'm writing all my music into it anyway so it's already done. But it just doesn't sound good enough, and I'm not sure how to make it sound better and more realistic. If I export it as MIDI, does it save all the articulations and could a program like Trillian or Scarbee read that? (I was really impressed with the videos I saw for Scarbee) "
    "If you export it as MIDI, where is it going? What program are you importing that into so you can use it with Trillian or Scarbee?
    If you export it as a Standard MIDI file, you should get everything you see in the MIDI track in Guitar Pro. But that doesn't mean that a Trillian or Scarbee bass will sound good with that track. Those programs have different velocity sensitivities or other differences that make your well-crafted MIDI track sound less-than-great with them. You might spend a lot of time tweaking your MIDI file or re-recording the part. Trillian and Scarbee are great programs, but they take time to master.
    Another option is to render the file as a .WAV file and see if you can get it to sound the way you want with EQ, chorus and other effects. There are quite a few "low-end enhancers" that will add a lot of punch to your track. Some will even duplicate the part an octave lower, and you can mix that back in with your original. "
    "I use Trillian and it is quite amazing and simple to use. As you already know, MIDI Wheel slides can be very cheesy sounding. Trillian has sampled articulations such as slide up, slide down, x Notes, gliss, etc... that are triggered by adding MIDI notes(key-switches). That is, key-switches to trigger dynamic bass articulations. Trillian will play any standard MIDI file, however, you can swap out MIDI slides, bends, etc.. using key-switches to trigger more realistic performances. Check out Trillian video on YouTube. It covers the aforementioned articulations and other features of the product."

    **********
    http://support.spectrasonics.net/viewtopic.php?t=325
    "If the switching of sounds with midi keys is not working when you load a keyswitch multi, check your utility menu in Trilian to make sure you have the following unchecked:
    MIDI Learn and Automation -> Ignore Assignments when loading Multi
    In Trilian, that should generally not be turned on. In Omnisphere it's the opposite - you usually want that turned on."

    http://support.spectrasonics.net/trilianmanual/concepts/arch_hierarchy/page02.html
    "Trilian is a multi-timbral instrument, allowing up to eight different Parts to be played at the same time within a single instance of the plug-in.
    Each of the eight Parts can be thought of as an entire instrument, complete with its own Soundsources, modulation routings, and FX, and each Part can be played on a different MIDI channel.
    The settings of all eight Parts are saved with a MULTI, or with your project. Everything will be recalled by loading that specific MULTI or project. The settings of a Part can also be individually saved as a Patch.
    A Patch contains all the settings that make up a sound, and can be individually loaded into any of the eight Parts."

    http://support.spectrasonics.net/trilianmanual/concepts/cpu_optimization/index.html
    "Multi-Instance vs Multi-timbral :

    On single and dual-core systems, it's best to load multiple Parts (on different MIDI channels) within a single instance of Trilian, before opening any additional instances of the intrument. This is the best way to utilize the available CPU power for Trilian.
    However, if a multi-core system is used, it can be beneficial to open multiple instances of Trilian to distribute the processor load between the cores. The resource handling is done by the host, so in this case it's useful to open more than one instance of Trilian. So the most efficient use on a multicore machine is to use a couple of instances multitimbrally - if assigning all Parts to a single instance is using up all the resources of a single core. Consult your host's documentation to make sure that it has support for multi-core/multi-processor systems. "

    http://support.spectrasonics.net/trilianmanual/main/page01.html
    "MAIN CUSTOM CONTROLS - Global Button :

    If multiple Parts have identical Custom Control parameter assignments, the Global Button allows changing those parameters for the multiple Parts simultaneously, using a single Custom Control.
    For example, if Patches loaded into Parts 1 and 2 both have Vintage Compressors loaded into their Common FX Racks, and both have Custom Controls assigned to the Compressor power buttons, then enabling the Global Button allows turning both Compressors on and off simultaneously using the Custom Control from either Part’s Main Page."

    http://support.spectrasonics.net/trilianmanual/edit_page/oscillator/page04.html
    "EDIT PAGE - Soundsource Zoom - Special Articulations :

    Most of Trilian Soundsources include Special Articulations. The Special Articulations are additional Soundsources loaded in the background that will be automatically triggered depending on how a passage is performed. These two Special Articulations are Legato Soundsources (samples of actual Legato performances), and Release Noise articulations.

    In the Special Articulations section, you can control how these are applied to the primary Soundsource.

    Use Legato SS / Legato Rules :

    When Legato Soundsources are available and loaded, enabling the Use Legato SS button will automatically trigger these Special Articulation samples when playing legato-phrased notes a half step or a whole step apart, providing added realism and nuance to the Bass sound.

    The Use Legato SS feature enables very realistic hammer-on, pull-off and other types of realistic bass phrasing. It allows for a very natural playing style, and great sounding Legato trills!

    Enabling Use Legato SS will change the way the instrument responds to notes that are played Legato. Successive Legato notes that are played half step or a whole step apart, will behave much like a lead synth using SOLO mode. That is, the next note played will cut-off the previously played note. If you sustain the cut off note, it will sound again when you release the successive note. The key difference is that Legato Mode is actually polyphonic!

    Notes played Legato, but more than a whole step apart will not trigger the Use Legato SS behavior.

    NOTE: The Use Legato SS button only changes the behavior of the Part. In order to hear the Legato Soundsources, make sure “No Limit” is selected in the Sample Thinning - Legato menu. This will allow the Legato Soundsources to load, and can add a very live, dynamic quality to the sound during performance.

    NOTE: Use Legato SS is a Patch Common parameter. Changing its setting will affect both Layers in the Patch."
     
  16. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    OK after hours of searching / reading / trying / failing / feeling desperate i think i've finally figured it out (the whole slides thing).

    I'm gonna write some kind of tutorial for it (due this weekend i guess).

    I feel quite relieved now :)
     
  17. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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  18. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    Hi guys,

    Anyone using the Layer A + B thing for bass sounds in Trilian ?

    I was thinking about using Layer A for my "main" bass tone, and Layer B for the bass distortion alone (using the same FX Rack in Layer B than in Layer A, except that i would add some distortion at the very end (smoke amp fx with gain on), and then blending Layer A + B to taste to have my final bass tone).

    http://support.spectrasonics.net/trilianmanual/fx_page/page00.html

    In the end i would have one patch with 2 layers who have their own volume and FX Rack, and going into one empty Commn FX Rack :

    LAYER A : main bass tone :
    volume : adjusted to the mix as if bass tone was only layer A
    FX Rack A : comp -> amp (with almost no gain and not too many mids)

    LAYER B : mid distorted bass tone :
    volume : adjusted to add some distortion to layer A
    FX Rack B : comp -> amp (with almost no bass, with some gain) -> EQ (to retain mostly the mids)

    EDIT : just started this thread to address this specific topic :

    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ate-bass-multitrack-blending.html#post9721772

    By the way, i've learnt tons of stuff on Trilian recently, and i'm about to complete my "handling bass articulations with Trilian using a Guitar Pro MIDI track" tutorial finally :

    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...-using-guitar-pro-midi-track.html#post9544660
     
  19. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    Hi there, anybody using Trilian with low tuning such as standard A# (6 steps down the standard E tuning) ?

    Can Trilian play low notes such as this low A# ?

    I'm using Reaper for now, and it seems the E1 (standard E, low bass string on a standard E bass guitar) in Guitar Pro is the E3 in Trilian, so when importing my Guitar Pro Bass track (bass tuned to A#), Trilian plays an octave higher, and i have to manually transpose (shifting the midi notes down in the midi editor) the bass score one octave down (well actually i just found out today and i have to try that tonight when i come home) AND doing a -1 step transposing in Trilian directly (EDIT tab on my patch).

    Anyone having the same experience ?

    EDIT :
    -the octave display difference in the Reaper piano roll was due to a preference setting (MIDI octaves name display offset : - 1 octave) i had. If i put it to 0, then my octaves displays are just fine in Reaper's piano roll
    -Trilian's hardcore rock bass cannot go lower than B1 (5 semitones under your standard low E), since they sampled a standard B tuned 5 string bass...
    BUT if you use Trilian's "transpose/pitch" function in the "edit" tab for X semitones (1 semitone down in my case, since i want to play A#1 when the lowest note i have played back is a B1) one way and shifting your midi notes X semitones the other way (means in my example i'm moving all my notes from A#1 for bottom to B1 for bottom (moving the notes UP)) in Reaper's Piano Roll.
    Since it only requires a -1 semitone transpose/pitch to reach A#1, Trilian's hardcore rock bass sounds good this way for standard A# tuning, but maybe it's gonna sound like shit if you're tuned way lower and have to transpose a lot of semitones down.
     
  20. tenebre

    tenebre Member

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    I use trillian with Omnisphere.... its brilliant for the synth stuff alone! I ALSO use trillian as a sub bass trigger on occasion and for my own projects and i like the use it as a triggered mixed bass line. I convert played bass into midi then play both together to create a bass tone i really like.
     

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