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Stage list for live Engineers - Lets make lives easier!!!

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by mick thompson, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. mick thompson

    mick thompson AKA: Ross Canpolat! SM!

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    Right, this is simple but quite effective

    What i learned from college is that when it comes to playing live (especially some of our gigs where we had 10 bands+ running on a very tight schedule) making the life of the stage engineer is essential.

    So below is a simple Stage setup that i supply to every engineer every time i play live.

    It makes the engineers life a lot easier when he has to deal with so many musicians and so many different setups and lets face it the last person you want in a pissy mood is your engineer because he can make or break your sound.

    Every musician has their different requirements (unless you simply dont give a shit about your sound and you hope your engineer knows what he's doing) such as mic setups, stage fx, what you want in your monitors etc

    Another prime example to use this is when it comes to playing festivals with professional musicians and engineers you dont want your band to walk in there like a pack of dumb dumb's when your engineer starts asking example "what processing you want on your drum kit's mic's on your stage left's guitar's monitor". If you dont know and your an unorganized fuck-up then lets face it... thats not a good image for you & your band and your knowledge of your work espcially if there are "hotshots" walking around.

    Screen shot of the work:
    [​IMG]


    Link to the XLS for Microsoft's Excel
    Link to the Numbers file for Mac's Numbers

    Edit accordingly and put a smile on your engineer's face - It works for me and i always get a big thank you from my live engineers when they see this popping up.

    It means they can get on with what they have to do and i can get on with setting up my gear without having back and forth conversations about compression and gating etc

    EDIT: obviously if your playing in a tiny venue with a coked up engineer this is not necessary but sooner or later your going to be asked for one of these when it comes to playing at a large festival or gig with processional musicians and engineers. Its better to be prepared.
     
  2. [UEAK]Clowd

    [UEAK]Clowd Member

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    pretty cool idea man.

    I have no real input but I just wanted to say thanks.
     
  3. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    That is called "input list" + preferrably use channel numbers and PDF format.

    Here is the technical rider I made for Ancara: http://www.ancarasite.com/media/ancara_techrider_200907.pdf

    edit: and during the 400 monitor engineering gigs I've never asked anything along lines "what processing you want on your drum kit's mic's on your stage left's guitar's monitor", only something like "what do you want to your monitor". The people will ask if they have specific needs, like "I want my vocals more compressed and add a touch of reverb" or "I don't want the kick to be that clicky"
     
  4. -Noodles-

    -Noodles- 3 Initals Mixer

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    Hey dude - I just had a quick read through your rider. I hope you don't mind, but can I suggest a few things to make life EVEN simpler? You can ignore my advice if you want, just wanted to give you my opinion as a In-House dude :)

    1) PA system - how loud are you requiring it to be? (eg; 105dBSPL at FOH)

    2) Your input list and stage plan are great.. but if you could put them on the same page (either that or print them out on the same sheet) the bigger venues* will love you long time. Nothing worse than being handed 4 pages of stuff, when you just want the input / stage plan.

    3) Stage plan - mark power points, that saves a lot of writing.

    That's all I can see at first glance, but that is a great example! A few edits and it'd be perfect (imho!).


    *Bigger venues - I say this because most bands on the metal bills generally have 4 page booklets, and there are 5 bands on a big tour. I don't really want to carry around 20 pages of stuff just to see where stuff is going mid-change over.
     
  5. arv_foh

    arv_foh Brian K

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    Another thing to make your guys' input lists better:

    Add the monitor mix locations. For example

    Monitors
    Kick X (DR)
    Center Vocal X (SR, C, SL)


    Much easier than the band yelling shit at you from the stage
     
  6. -Noodles-

    -Noodles- 3 Initals Mixer

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    D'yknow what - I was gonna be like "nah.. not needed" - but the more I think about it, I'm not a Mon Engineer .. and it's probably get for those engineers who need a starting point.
     
  7. arv_foh

    arv_foh Brian K

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    I think it makes more sense too--because I'm not gonna put every single instrument/channel through every single mix that is on the stage
     
  8. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    1) Maybe to the next revision as those are pretty minimal changes. PS: I usually never go over 95dB, unless the place is REALLY small.

    2) they don't fit on the same page, because there is the header takes 1/4 of the page, and I use same font on each page and that fontsize is readable even in semi dark conditions when printed on paper. And the festivals usually have all the infos on a binder-folder anyway.

    3) they read as text below, but maybe in the next revision... But the powermarking info is still required because the band travels abroad atleast once per record.
     
  9. -Noodles-

    -Noodles- 3 Initals Mixer

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    Yeah, they are minor - but, for me really important :)

    95dB is a great SPL to work at - so maybe specify at least 100dB clean @ FOH?

    I've never encountered stuff being a folder, but it's your experience that counts!

    Good to see that the band are working hard though .. once per record is pretty good - I know some bands who've not left the UK yet and are "famous".
     
  10. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    This depends on the stage also, because on small stages some are not needed, when on bigger arenas they might even need the hihat to the monitor because the stage is so big.
     
  11. -Noodles-

    -Noodles- 3 Initals Mixer

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    If you are playing larger venues often, I'd suggest in a Mon E!
     
  12. mick thompson

    mick thompson AKA: Ross Canpolat! SM!

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    one question ahj - why is your bass player stage right? because i always learned in college bass is always stage left next to the hi-hats to lock in with the hats, snare & kick was the drummer left handed or is that just what my tutor's preferences?

    i actually left out a lot from my list - i have my pages from college, i'll scan them up and upload them - our ones were around 10 pages of shit to fill in - ugh
     
  13. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    because the drummer is left handed, it reads in the backline rider ;)
     
  14. mick thompson

    mick thompson AKA: Ross Canpolat! SM!

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    my bad! haha cheers
     
  15. arv_foh

    arv_foh Brian K

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    I get a lot of bands that ask for HH, and my stage isn't horribly huge. I have 6 mixes (standard, and up to 12 if needed) and probably 30 ft wide by 15 feet deep.. but yeah I get what you're sayin, stage volume and the space does have a lot to do with the MONS mix

    and Mick bass gtr usually is stage left, but I see bands with it switched up all the time, there really are no "rules" when it comes to stage plots

    The input list is industry standard... every touring band that comes into my venue hands me one. Local bands not such much, but it's definitely professional (and makes our lives easier) to know if Johnny Rocket Drummer has a 10pc kit and 4 keyboards in his band.

    Oh and this is one of my number 1 pet peeves--bands asking for more monitor, and not being specific. "HUURRR I NEED MORE MONITOR" "HURR THE DRUMMER NEEDS MORE MONITOR"

    Dude... there are like 7 different signals going to that mix, you need to tell me WHAT you or the drummer needs
     
  16. JamesNorman

    JamesNorman Member

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    +1
     
  17. Jevil

    Jevil Pro Evolution Fucker

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    Yhe idea is good, but unless you have your own engineer, stage engineers do what they want, specially in festivals, so it is a waste of time.
    The only thing they should know is the number of channels and which instruments are in each.
    The rest is pure fantasy...
     
  18. thefyn

    thefyn Member

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    Has anyone noticed, that tech has got much better, live sound engineers have degrees, most of it is automated, everything is a planned like a military operation, yet most metal gigs suck ass for sound?

    Big gigs, small gigs, club gigs are always SUPER UBER HUGE KICK, HUGE snare, lost guitars, inaudible bass and inconsistent vocals.

    Is most of this bollocks, is what I am asking. Do people have these lists then never use them at shows due to incompatible PA's, noise ordinence, unfamiliar PA setups, speed/time constraints etc etc?

    Because I am more impressed on what I see on paper in this thread, than what I am hearing in the crowd.
     
  19. thefyn

    thefyn Member

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    Ah you beat me to it, haha.
     
  20. arv_foh

    arv_foh Brian K

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    This is half true, if I'm mixing 12 bands on one show I'm going to use the same inputs for each band, but it's still a nice courtesy to know the inputs a band has beforehand

    Obviously you guys have never been to my club before :D

    But in all seriousness, metal is by far the hardest genre of music to mix, and if you walk into a room and hear a bad mix, it is usually the fault of the band (guitarists with no mids, super quiet vocalists, etc) but it can be the fault of the engineer too if he doesn't know what the hell he's doing
     

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