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The American President

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by monoxide_child, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. Base Delta Zero

    Base Delta Zero Senior Meatbag

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    Don't know why everyone's so in love with JFK...well, besides the fact that he was assassinated and that tends to tug the heart strings. Though JFK did give tax-breaks to the wealthy and he had a great speechwriter, he was largely ineffectual. He handled the Cuban Missile Crisis...adequately...

    Everything else is negative. He couldn't get anything passed through congress because he really wasn't much of a politician. The Bay of Pigs was a disaster and most of his books were actually ghost-written (largely by Joe's speechwriter), papa Joe buying large quantities to secure him a spot on the best-seller lists. He was a philanderer. Dad was a bootlegger who bought JFK's election through his mafia ties (according to FBI files).
    The only thing you really hear about him is largely conspiracy and un-founded adoration. I don't get it...I don't understand how he's become such a symbol.
    Not true. The Iraqi's were back in control of their oil as soon as possible. The U.S. got involved in the war because they received Israeli intelligence, concerning Hussein and WMD's. While it reeks of suspicion, the American people (or most of them) are not asking the right questions nor are they making the right accusations. For instance, what is the nature of our alliance with Israel and where is it taking us?

    Anyway, Obama is proving to be the politician I knew he would be. He's now considering going back on his promise to raise taxes on the wealthy (at least in his first term, as such a rise in taxes would be unwise, at this point), as I suspect he will go back on his promise of universal healthcare (which would also be wise, as the U.S. simply doesn't have the money for such bold boondoggles - sorry, I mean spending). None of that pisses me off though as it shows prudence. Nor does lying bother me as I (unlike many others) expect politicians to lie.

    He's an excellent public speaker though and he's saying all the right things. He's focusing more on Afghanistan/Pakistan while down-playing Iraq, something Bush should've done a long time ago. He's also preparing Americans for hard economic times, stating how it's going to get worse before it gets better and etc. He's saying and doing all the right things a great leader should.
    I also agree with everyone else in expressing pride of the simple fact that he's black. Hopefully, civil rights issues will be seen as redundant now (which I think they have been for awhile, personally).

    All-in-all, I'm positive (even though I voted for McCain) so far. It's also encouraging to see Bush being so civil during the transition, it's probably one of the best transitions we've ever seen.
     
  2. deathmetalpat

    deathmetalpat Member

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    That is about it for me also.I thought McCain was just too old and irrational at times but the damage to America is deep and really began 25 years ago with goverment and people digging a debt hole so deep there is no easy way out.The way nations cancel debt is either war or a deep depression.Americans will have a lower standard of living and our decline will contiune.Hope is a dangerous thing when it goes unfulfilled.
     
  3. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Good post, all of it.
    ---------------------------------------------

    I do know, I would not want to be the president now or anytime during the next 10-20 years. It took 30 years to make this mess, its going to take longer to dig back out. America did not stand a chance in hell of surviving globalism and the simplist of people seem to be the only ones that knew this, probably because they were who was taking the loss. You just cant give away a countries industrious jobs and expect a bunch of fabricated "work" to fill the void forever. Sooner or later those employed doing honest industrious work will no longer be able to support those with the made up (created) jobs. Tack onto that the extreme oil prices that picked everyones saving clean, excessinve housing prices, which along with that brought excessive property taxs... also picking everyones pockets clean, mega inflated insurance & health care costs... next thing you know... the country is broke. Hats off to the big planers that came up with that scam... mission successful.

    This thing... my friends... is going to get UGLY
     
  4. Base Delta Zero

    Base Delta Zero Senior Meatbag

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    True enough. World trade is a double-edged sword - especially for Americans. In one hand, world trade truly is the answer to world peace (or at least the end of major or world wars). In the other hand, however, Americans have to give up much of their wealth and jobs. The problem is that the U.S. (both government and people) have been spending as if the economy were going to keep getting better. Of course, this is an old story to most people.

    What I would like to see happen is an end to the blame-game. It's easy to point fingers at Reagan, Clinton, Bush, banks, Wall Street, etc. However, the fault also lies with the lower and middle class who committed to (and defaulted on) home loans, car loans, credit cards, etc. Everyone bought into the belief that the boom would last, save for a few lone voices who were ridiculed by seemingly intelligent economists.
     
  5. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    no
    not clear and concise
    the amount of people that actually showed up to the voting booths is only a small fraction of the total USA population, combined with the fact that you can't vote while incarcerated in prison, in Florida convicted felons can't vote, in Texas you can't vote if you're on probation or parole, and the majority of the people are too lazy/apathetic to vote anyway
    Barak Obama won the election, but that was only out of the people that actually showed up to the voting booths and many of those people voted for McCain
    my point here is that racism is so prevalent in USA that most of the random white americans wanted McCain to win, in the end Obama just won because "the white supremisists were too lazy to vote against the black candadite" which Barak himself predicted in an interview from before he beat out Hilary for the democratic nomination
    can't remember his exact words but he said something to the effect of "if i beat Hillary for the democratic nomination, i believe i will win the presidency because..." and then he talked about how the white supremisists "won't show up to the voting booths" because they'll be too lazy "to vote against the black candadite..."

    as soon as the election was over, i had to listen to a lot of white people really pissed off/freaked out about a black guy being president, i don't think white america's really ready for this
     
  6. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    Kennedy wasn't "assasinated", he was "executed"
     
  7. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I have no problem pointing the finger of blame. All governmental bodies since the 70's have had their fingers up to their wrists in manipulating these false economies, false sense of hope and false sense of security. So has the investors and corporate bosses and "economists" who are the only ones that benefited from the entire ordeal. Yes people bought into it but it was SOLD to us, driven into our heads with the skills of the best used car saleman... and by people that we trusted, so why would'nt most of the population BUY into it ? I'm always reminded of that song from the 80's "the futures so bright, I think I'll wear shades".

    {I should note that when I say we, I say it as a brother to my fellow countrymen. I DID not buy into it. I bought a shameless excuse for a home from my landlord, because that is what I could afford. Owner held mortage, no "realator", did all the work lawyers would typically do for a mortgage myself, deed search, mortgage papers and paid it off in less than 5 yrs. I have always done everything for myself, all building and repairs of any kind, auto, home, electical, for my business, everything, you name it, I did it myself. Buy my cars and any items cash, live within what I can afford NOW, no credit cards and minimal amounts of loans. Im the worse thing for a manipulated economy because few get their hands on my money except for that I can not make or grow, like food, taxs, gas, LP, electricity. I havent burned a drop of heating oil since '78, heating my places of residence with my own labor and wood. I just accept that most people cant live as I have and tried to go the modern root of "credit", banking on the false sense of security shoved down our throats the past 30 years.... I have just been sitting and watching in disbelief, thinking of the Lennon song "Im just sitting here watching the world go round and round" and "The fool on the Hill" I have seen alot and frankly its been as entertaining as the lamest of spoof movies. OJ's got nothing in the name of pathetic on this shit... }
     
  8. Base Delta Zero

    Base Delta Zero Senior Meatbag

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    The problem is that the population didn't buy into it, the population defaulted.

    And your analogy doesn't make sense. Are you saying that we shouldn't fault the population for their ignorant consumption, simply because of the salesman's skill? If that's what you're saying, I disagree. I believe more Americans need to learn to read the fine print and budget their money wisely before making impulsive purchases. After all, if more people were like you, we wouldn't be in this mess.
     
  9. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    The population defaulted because it was an impossible scam to succeed but that doesnt mean I dont know who the salesmen were. Then your ignoring that even those living within their means on a tight budget were finished as oil prices doubled, insurance companys stole raises, property taxes increased an average of 20% a year, and all the other inflation that went along with these scams. Then people were loosing jobs, hell our governments dont even have any money, spend, spend, spend, never stopping to think of where the money is going to come from years down the road. Flooding the country with people at the same time corporations were exporting jobs... am I stupid here or what... why dont I get the mentality of it all ?

    Dont get me wrong I know why they flooded the coutry with people... it fed the housing and construction boom, part of the false economy, it made alot of work for people that otherwise would not have jobs because there is little other industry in the country anymore. It made alot of money for developers, sub divided land which made alot of money for school districts and local governments, lots of sales tax's. It along with the "technology" boom, computers and such made it look like America was doing great... for a spell... but with all good acid trips there is a crash at the end, when reality sets in and begins slapping one upside the face. "Welcome to the Boom Town" now its time to pay the price. The "boom town" also took a hell of a toll on the infrastructure, money the States and locals really didnt have to rebuild and/or restructure or increase the infrastructure with. But wait... money just doesnt disappear... somewhere, a handful of people have all this money, gee wizz... I wonder where would be a good place to start looking for it ? Will the people of the country get "tax credits" for their kind donations ? LOL

    Make no mistake, there are people somewhere right now trying to figure out the next boondoggle, the next way to "stimulate" the economy into another false sense of security, another unsustainable "economy", one in which the puppet masters can further line their pockets. What will it be ? "Green Energy" ? Sounds good, people will buy into it like flies on fly paper. However there are some cold realities involved with "green energy" and a HUGE population that has been predicted to continue to rise at an alarming rate. In the real world, not the fabricated human world, populations are kept in check by food source and climate. With humans, work and income is the food but we are running out of ways to keep everybody productively employed in ways that actually contribute to society and we wont let anyone die. So we make legal methods in which we can steal money back and forth, providing jobs but best yet... providing great profits at the top, keeping the bulk of the population strapped.... to?.... DEBT!

    "Oh... what a wonderful world"
     
  10. deathmetalpat

    deathmetalpat Member

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    Here is the problem with the last 25 years.As America has traded with counties with lower wages we made up the difference with lower taxes and higher debt.It had to run aground eventually and it looks like now is the time.All the workers in the USA either have to accept a lower wage and longer hours or a lower standard of living.They keep on talking about losing jobs but we have too many service jobs that people use to do on their own and did not get taxed.All the fast food ,starbucks,landscaping,and the finance related jobs could disappear and we would be no worse off.
     
  11. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Yep, we just need the simple people of this country to die off, until it is nothing but a country of college educated people that can do ALL the "tech" jobs. Yep, thats what we need, we will be no worse for it... just got to get rid of all them "commoners"
     
  12. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

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    60+% of eligible voteres isn't a small fraction, it's a majority. Even if you compare the number of votes to the total population (not just those who are eligible to vote), over a third of the population voted. Also, with a sample size of over 130 million, you can pretty much rest assured that the final turnout will be representative of the population.
     
  13. deathmetalpat

    deathmetalpat Member

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    You are not quite getting my point.When reagan lowered taxes he was pushing people to believe that every job in society could be turn into a business and taxed.A landscaper is more efficient than someone doing their own gardening and lawn mowing but as each person becomes just a part in an efficient machine each one becomes more expendable.The debt part came in because if you competing against the third world they will kick you ass in the bottom line in wages.Just look at the housing industry it was out-sourced in a way.All the mexicans came over to build the houses cheap and now they aren't needed anymore the goverment and the people want to kick them out.Yes the world needs ditch-diggers too but not coffee-makers.It was all a fantasy it never worked it must die!
     
  14. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    But you are at the end of the day and also isolated to a more Mexican/S. American accessable area... obviously. Here in the NE homes were still built by good old American white boys. Landscape and lawn care were done by horticultural graduates. Mowing lawns is something teenagers did for money when I was a kid... not play video games. Our insurance industry and judicial system is largly to blame today because heaven forbid some lame ass teenager cut off his toes mowing his neighbors lawn with their lawnmower... and good luck finding one with ambition enough to dig a hole and plant a shrub.

    That is but one part of the reality.

    The average suburbanite is afraid of dirt, dirt under the fingernails, grass clippings on their lawn... heaven forbid they might track some into the house or get a little blister on their hand or foot. So they hire the guy with the expensive commercial lawn mowers with baggers that get the entire lawn and other landscape maintainence done in less than a few hours a week and everyone is happy. The suburbanite is making good money and another industry is established getting a piece of that income.

    But that is just another fraction of the reality

    When our corporations, zoning boards and other "governmental commitees" decided to rid the country of indurtrial jobs, the governments answer to the alarm of citizens questioning "WTF are we supposed to do for work?" Their answer was... theres lots of work in the "service industry". Thus a smoke screen was established that new jobs were created so things were not really that bad.

    Yes it was a hoax, but to say at the end of the day... now we need to loose these service industry jobs, with no industrial replacement jobs for the vast population of the country is simply bullshit. The only answer is to re-industrialize the country, tell the cry babys that sit on zoning boards to shut TF up and get a life and keep their opinions on "things" from affecting other human beings livelyhood. If they dont like the mill town or quary town or name the industrial area they decided to buy a house in, pack up and move TF out. Secondly the officers and "investors" in such industrial corporations need to be told that if they expect great riches at the cost of environmental concerns and fair compromises to those that are exposed to the negatives of said industry that they can sit their asses in jail with the rest of the criminal element. Meaning industry can compromise and be clean, employ natural born citizens and great riches at the top be forgotten about. Enjoy a somewhat better income than most and stop being totally greedy because we have a population to employ and keep industrious.

    We can talk global all we want, we can talk equality of peoples all we want but in the end the world is all individual countries that need to look out for their own... ALL THEIR OWN or else fail. We can not be a nation of only consumers dangling on promises of service jobs, tech jobs and "information" jobs. We need the full spectrum of work to employ all... to keep all people industrious and utilized... whatever their value, and we need to keep our incomes circulating in OUR country.

    Many of us always knew this and questioned WTF are they thinking about as our gross national product took slide after slide, decade after decade. We saw the kindling fire, now it is totally aflame and there for all to see. So the question is does everyone see it or are we just going to keep the shades on and throw another bandaid in the form of another economic boondoggle ? A new scheme to create another fog storm to distract a larger(louder) percentage of the population into thinking everything is gonna be A-OK ? Or just say "screw it, welcome to third world standard of living"... ignoring welfare, unemployed and handing our social security funds over to former citizens of third world countries "because we were always a country of immigrants" ? A home is only as good as its foundation, we spent better than 30 years undermining our foundation... BRAVO... great genious
     
  15. deathmetalpat

    deathmetalpat Member

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    The agree with you but you will see more and more people doing their own "service industry jobs" themsleves without anyone pushing them.It is a downward spiral as one guy figures out it can cut his lawn ,do his taxes,make his food,and so forth.As these people stop hiring people jobs and taxes disappear.All the things we can't do like build a car from the ground up or electronics are always going to be done oversees.This will just happen no one will say so ,it will just happen.Then we are stuck with a nation of under-educated ,over-feed and spoiled children ,no matter what age.If you notice when Obama speaks he speaks very slowly and carefully.This is because he knows he is speaking to a nation of children.Bush ducking that shoe yesterday and making a joke about it sums up the last 8 years.Bush was a child and Obama is an adult.
     
  16. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Yeah, dude... I almost know what you want to say but you are all washed up. Everyone in this country is not a child, nor are the working class of this country "children"... we just know we need fucking jobs
     
  17. deathmetalpat

    deathmetalpat Member

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    The current real debt in America is $56 trillion dollars that works out to $186,000 apeice.And that is just goverment debt ,we have robbed from the future for to long and decisons wlll have to be made.Maybe cancel everyone's debt,maybe cancel all the social contacts(health,social sercuity,food stamps and etc.).Maybe letting out all the people in jail and making people pay for police and fire services.But whatever Obama does will have a servere effect on society at large.Making up phony jobs is the least of our problems.Look at us as Germany in 1945(The reaqan era right wing was our nazi party)we need a plan and I have not heard that from any leader.We should legalize all drugs and other vices and tax them,kick every Right wing christian nut-job out of office,stop putting so many people in jail for nonviolent crimes and a million other things but we just keep on creating money out of thin air and keep on borrowing from the future that all I hear.Lower interest rates bailout everyone keep the fantasy going and will we end up like Rome.
     
  18. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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  19. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    the voter turnout THIS election was spectacularly larger than any previous election in the entire history of the country and i still stand by my previous statements
    i'm completely surrounded by people that are pissed off that Barak Obama won the election
     

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