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the "classics" are sometimes crap

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by monoxide_child, Jun 19, 2011.

  1. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    thank you for apearing to go inside my head and write down my thoughts in a way that's so much more eloquent and articulate than any post i myself actually write

    also
    BlackMetalWhiteGuy came back
    woo-hoo
     
  2. ArcipreteTifone

    ArcipreteTifone New Metal Member

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    ^^^That.

    Tolkien was a genius. If something is awesome and it so happens to be liked by many, doesnt mean its necessarily a case of group thinking. What would you do if your favorite band became incredibly popular and liked by millions? Would you call yourself a "group thinker"? I think not
     
  3. Carmen_Rock

    Carmen_Rock New Metal Member

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    The difference between Tolkien and his work, and the posterior works and writers, as Eragon, is that Tolkien was original at his time and created that world and that stories. The writers and works that came before, took Tolkien's ideas and "imitated" them. So, Tolkien's work is more valuable for this.
     
  4. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    except for his writing style was annoying as fuck

    so, while i understand the whole concept of "first one is better than the copies"

    i still say Eragon better that LOTR just simply because it's a hell of a lot easier to read

    also
    LOTR movie >>> than the books because of Tolkien's annoying writing style
     
  5. orcslayr23

    orcslayr23 Member

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    I agree that the LOTR movies are superior to the books. In the 10 years or so that i've been into LOTR i've only read the books twice. I want to read them again but my list of books to read/reread is incredibly long, so I might not get to it for a while.
     
  6. Carmen_Rock

    Carmen_Rock New Metal Member

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    I think Tolkien's style of writing is quite good, but there are many people who dislike it because it's rather descriptive, and sometimes, Tolkien dedicates too much lines to describe for example a tree. This kind of descriptions are disliked by some people, but in spite of this, i find Tolkien' style kinda good because I don't care about that.
    It's a matter of what are you searching for when you read a book, but I consider that to say Eragon is better than LOTR is to exaggerate a bit.
     
  7. orcslayr23

    orcslayr23 Member

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    It also depends on what you mean by "better". I've read both and Eragon is pretty poorly written and not overly original, lifting many of its plot points from other works of fiction. If you're referring to what is actually a better piece of fiction, LOTR is by far.

    In Monoxide's case, it's personal preference. Tolkien's style isn't overly accessible, which can definitely alienate readers. Eragon is more accessible, and many of its readers enjoy the story just fine regardless of the points i've made in the previous paragraph. It would probably make more sense to say "I enjoy Eragon more than I enjoy LOTR" or something to that effect than to say "Eragon is better than LOTR".

    I love Sonic Syndicate, and I know they are neither overly original or technically proficient. I went to see Soilwork the other day and Jeff Loomis was one of the opening performers. Sure he's wicked talented and can shred like nobody's business, but I was really bored during his set because instrumental music that's just shredding and solos does nothing for me. Would I say that Sonic Syndicate is "better" than Jeff Loomis? From a technical standpoint, definitely not, but I personally prefer SS to JL.
     
  8. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    yes
    exactly
    Eragon is definately much more accessable than LOTR, in terms of writing style

    but i also want to say that

    first is not neccassarrilly the best

    Tolkien's fans go on and on about how Tolkien spent his whole fucking life Creating the whole "middle-earth" universe
    i, for one, personnally think that there's definately such a thing as putting too much effort into a creative work

    imagine for a moment how much more accessible "the lord of the rings" would have been if the trilogy had been written in the 1st person from Frodo's POV
     
  9. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    this^^^

    also
    when reading "fantasy"
    i prefer Drizzt Do'Urden books because
    as mentioned in another thread
    Drizzt Do'Urden books always have a "good guy vs evil guy" type story-arc in them,
    where it reminds me of "superhero" stories but in a "fantasy setting"

    also my "problems" with Tolkien's writing Style are simmilar to the problems i have with the works of George RR Martin's fire and ice series and Steven Ericson's Malazan books
     
  10. orcslayr23

    orcslayr23 Member

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    That would probably suck; you'd basically cut out half of what happens in Two Towers and Return of the King.
     
  11. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    yeah
    you would be cutting a lot out
    maybe even cutting out enough that the new smaller size makes it more accessible to those people that don't read it just because it's a really really long book trilogy

    i think if it had been written in a first-person
    it would have been more accessible to "random people of the street"

    when Sean Astin got casted as Samwise Gamgee and was told the movie was based on a book, he had never even tried to read LOTR and didn't even realize that "the book" was actually a fucking trilogy
     
  12. Beastly_Brew

    Beastly_Brew New Metal Member

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    While I understand where you're coming from, comparing Eragon to Lord of the Rings is a bit out there imo.

    I feel like the unabridged Lord of the Rings, may just come across as difficult to read/comprehend for some people which leads to people just going with it being a classic as opposed to reading it. The Inheritance Series is well written, Paolini did a great job, I just don't think it's quite on the same level as LOTR.
     
  13. orcslayr23

    orcslayr23 Member

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    That sounds like an awful idea. Plus LOTR has millions and millions of fans worldwide, so it doesn't really need to be made 'more accessible'. And it's only an average sized trilogy; i've read longer. The first 3 Eragon books are probably longer than LOTR, so that argument (especially coming from you) doesn't really make sense.
     
  14. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    yeah
    Eragon series is more individual words
    but my theory still stands

    for a great many Americans first-person is a hell of a lot more accessible than 3rd person

    also
    when you look at sales figures for each individual month of the year, you'll notice that most copies of LOTR are purchased between Holloween and Christmas, Tolkien's distinctive writing style is (for many poeple) instantly annoying from the first page, and i'm willing to say that the number of people that actually read the trilogy is actually a hell of a lot smaller than the number of copies being sold, there's a whole hell of a lot of people who recieve LOTR as a fucking Christmas present and then never actually read past the first page
     
  15. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    i wasn't trying to say they were "equal" or even "comparable"

    i was actually saying Eragon was flat-out better
     
  16. orcslayr23

    orcslayr23 Member

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    Speaking of sales figures, I can't imagine Tolkien Enterprises would want to modify LOTR in any way considering it is the second best-selling book of all time (150 million copies sold, second only to "A Tale of Two Cities"). I imagine if LOTR was everything you said it was (and that half the sold copies have never been read because people give up after reading the first page:lol:) it would've been forgotten 10 years or so after it was published.
     
  17. matt schrauben

    matt schrauben Curse You All Men!

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    I hate reading
     
  18. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    a lot of people are just reading it because everyone is already refering to it as awesome

    LOTR is one of the greatest examples of groupthink ever

    everyone's become to chickenshit to say it's crap because everyone else has already said that it's awesome
     
  19. orcslayr23

    orcslayr23 Member

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    Stop. Just stop. You aren't going to win. You COULD do what i've done and accepted that everyone has different opinions and tastes, but now you're just embarassing yourself by saying essentially EVERYONE but YOU is stupid because they enjoy LOTR and you don't. Believe it or not, people who don't share your opinion are not 'wrong'.

    It's called word of mouth. If you enjoy something, you are generally going to want to tell people you know about it.

    I should've checked out of this conversation a long time ago but i'm kind of curious as to what "argument" you're going to use next. I'm putting my $5 on "Tolkien was a poopyhead."
     
  20. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    EVERYONE HAS DIFFERING OPINIONS
    you can't just bash me because you love something that i found flaws with



     

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