I will first point out that I really dislike Socrates and Plato. But especially Socrates. Whenever I read about Socrates or read his naive assumptions about reality, I just picture some worthless bum who found a few interesting statements like "Anyone who thinks they are wise must not be, I think I am not wise, so I must be!", and he used to brainwash and exploit young males of Athens to pay his way. Socrates was said to be rational as was Plato and yet both seemed to believe that justice was some natural inclination of humanity, and that the greatest government would be a philosopher king or oligarchy. They believed this because they thought themselves to be better than the "common" people, who couldn't possibly be "good" because they hadn't been educated. This is why they both loathed the idea of a democracy. I enjoy Aristophanes Clouds much more than The Apology or Crito. I enjoy the scatological humor, references to hypocrisy and the grand finale, Socrates' thinkery being set ablaze as a master statement about the need for honor in society.