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The Fury of the Norsemen

Discussion in 'Amon Amarth' started by wintermetalsmith, May 2, 2003.

  1. wintermetalsmith

    wintermetalsmith patterns in the ivy

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    I am a Christian, and I love vikings and the norsemen. a lot of people apparently don't understand that, but I can't help but love the Norse. I know amon amarth talks about how the Christians are brutal savages (as in the references to Christians slaying his sons....??). if that were true, i'd love it. I love onslaught. however, it's not true, but I have a seed of slaughter growing within me, and it is fed by the fury of the norse.
    Jag huggar huvudar med min yxan......

    Keep up with the wrath, but why must you be rooted in paganism? i'm not trying to convert you or anything, i'd just like to understand it. the traditional vikings didn't hate Christians.
    well, in closing.....fight for honor, glory, death in fire.
     
  2. Belgar

    Belgar The Wallonian Redneck.

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    One date my friend, 793, keep that in mind. Paganism isn't only associated with Vikings, before this plague called christianity started to spread accross Europe and went on to spread westward, all believes in ancient Europe were considered pagan. In a dictionary you will find that a pagan aka paganus = latin for peasant it was anybody regarded by the upper class as a heaten. A pagan was anybody associated in the worship of false idols, so for the Christian religion anything was considered pagan. Maybe the vikings did hate the christians, unless you take into account the force fed desecration of their sacred land, forced conversion. In my opinion, vikings have slaughtered 100x less people than people have in the name of a so called saviour. I could go into details, but that would get boring. Of course that is just my opinion, there are many books dedicated to ancient europe and the Dark ages in Europe, as well as the viking invasions On the other hand, the bible does not offer many details about the persecutions commited by the god it claims to endorse, so don't use that as a book of reference. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but historical facts remain what they are.
     
  3. Madkill

    Madkill Baseball Geek/Metal Freak

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    As both a Christian and an Amon Amarth fan, I just wanted to say that it IS possible to conciliate the admiration one has for the band's music with maintaining a devout faith in one's belief.
     
  4. wintermetalsmith

    wintermetalsmith patterns in the ivy

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    793...was that the year that ethelwulf and ethelbald had the greatest pagan onslaught up till that time? i might not be right about that...true, they did press on in "holy wars" and crusades. most of the time, they weren't right to just go kill people and say that God bid them to do it. and there again, the vikings raided thousands of times into lands that held nothing against the norsemen. i do like viking war, but i don't think it's right to just go killing people just to take their gold. for vengeance sake, i see why people would lead on into war though.

    hey belgar, i'm in florida too, unfortunately....jag skulle vilja resar till Sverige....i'd really like to head up north, but i'm in school for the next 8 months...
    i'm in orlando, and i hate it. but, are there ever any good shows(metal) within a few hours drive?

    thanks

    jesse
     
  5. Belgar

    Belgar The Wallonian Redneck.

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    793 was the year of the invasion on Lindisfarne, raids went on until 866 or so. To be honest with you, I dont think that the vikings were invading and pushing religion on whoever they were invading. Vikings warriors have been found as elite troops of persian kings for their bravery and were excellent merchants. I think that what pushed them south was the fact that living surrounded by snow and cold most of the year they had to go explore down south, vikings went as far as Irak. To be honest the whole religion theme is an endless argument as we all have a different opinion.
    There are many shows in Fl and yr area in ORL, i am about 1.30 from ORL, I will be there next week, Irish pub in downtown ORL. Many shows take place here in Tampa. Are you Swedish ? jag skulle vilja resar till Sverige why would you prefer to travel to Sweden? Until then ....... Hej då min komrad ...... If you want o IM on AOL AIM my handle is BelgarTpa Hails for now ......
     
  6. gcele

    gcele färdas naken

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    As a matter of fact, not few of the vikings WHERE christian themselves. Christianization began (in Sweden) in the middle of the 9th century, and was more or less finished in the 12th or 13th. If you'd like to practice your Swedish, read http://hem.passagen.se/slcarl/vikingar.html and if you're a pussy ;) read English: http://www.hut.fi/u/milla/e/98103/vikings.html

    And some corrections:
    Jag huggar huvudar med min yxan -> Jag hugger av huvuden med min yxa
    jag skulle vilja resar till Sverige -> Jag skulle vilja resa till Sverige
    Hej då min komrad -> Hej då min kamrat

    But you're making progress. Keep up the good work :)
     
  7. spaffe

    spaffe Geisterglut

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    when reading about the vikings and history of the time one has to keep in mind that our history was mostly written by the people who where the victims of raids and considered the vikings pillaging barbarians.

    but i can understand how you as a christian still like amon despite of their lyrics, their fury and power is so captivating, but what do you do when johan screams "rape every whore, that carries the cross" ? :) cover your ears?
     
  8. North Sea Stormrider

    North Sea Stormrider Guitar Playing Viking

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    I think that the Vikings raided those Christian towns because they saw the Christians as oppressors, especially when the Christians were trying to spread their word. Coincidentally, this is one of the main reasons MANY people left Europe to form America, to be rid of oppression...the Vikings just liked where they lived a hell of a lot more than the Pilgrims that started America.

    Also: a bit of help in the "English Language Department"
    where: a questioning word that pertains to a place (ex: Where are you going?)
    were: past tense of "are" or "be" (ex: There were hundreds dead in the slayings.)
    we're: contraction of "we" and "are" (ex: We're going out of town for a few days.)
     
  9. gcele

    gcele färdas naken

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    Baaah, I knew that, honestly ;)
     
  10. spaffe

    spaffe Geisterglut

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    the raiding started before any christians came here and it's fact the raids primarily where done due to a longing for wealth and adventure, not retaliation.

    np: lake of tears - pagan wish
     
  11. LunarTower

    LunarTower Child of Decadence

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    Christianity is not bad to me just because it is fake... I mean honestly, who the fuck are you to presume you know a gods will?... Im an Agnostic Atheist so all religious people remind me of a retarded sheep stumbling about and walking into trees...

    My real problem with christianity is its completely pathetic guilt driven moral code, the whole fucking religion is one big fucking guilt cult, feel bad about this, feel bad about that, screw that, if bashing some dumbassed wigger pricks skull in with a warhammer is wrong, then Im Erik the fucking Red...

    Atleast in Nordish Paganism the gods they created themselves were strong, proud, brutal, the gods pushed for pride and devotion to ones blood and people, for survival of the fittest, a much more brutal way of life, but overall a more profitable, look around in our christian world and realise that because of its endless guilty feeling that the world has become far too soft of a place, the world would have become a better place without it.
    ...Not to mention the jews created it, for fucks sake, the day I trust the opinions of a people that have been stepped on, spat on, shit on and shitted out since day one in human history, is the day George W. is held in the same light as Franklin Roosevelt, and we find that Hitler is still alive and well, and living in palm springs.

    Christianity speaks incessantly of ''faith'', faith is good, but christians have nothing to have faith in, they have absolutely no proof of anything they say, people are born, bred into christianity, they become a blind and deaf slave of brainwashing, faith that if you be a good little boy, you get to go to heaven, waste your life away making the world a more pathetic place with a completely ball forsaken style of living, and you get a one way ticket to an eternity in hippyland, yes, an eternity... forever... never ending... Im pretty sure id go nuts after 2 days of harps and pretty flowers and some jewish dude speaking in riddles... faith is good when there is a reason to have faith in it, because you were told something when you were a kid is not a good reason to believe something blindly

    Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life. - Nietzsche

    And a christians moral code is fucking pathetic too, its such a weak and limp wristed collection of horseshit, as Nietzsche also said "Morality is a hinderance to the building to newer and better customs, it makes stupid"...

    Cast off your false Idols and become an individual, not a devotee of the flock, the only way you'll ever know if that god is really there, is if you die... and frankly, if the christian god is really the creator of all, I dont want to exist, because I would spit upon his face and demand uncreation of my soul, because it would make me sick to know that humanity is the biproduct of such a flowery waste of divinity.

    I really hope this offended someone...
    it would just prove a point.
     
  12. Belgar

    Belgar The Wallonian Redneck.

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    You made a lot of good points Lunar. I still think that arguing about religion is like an endless battle, we all have our points and stand behind them. I went to a catholic school and college and this whole masquerade of fakness really turned me against religion. Does not mean it made me evil, but it gave me good reasons to look further, study books,... the bible has to be the biggest selling fairy tale book around. I call the bible, the book of excuses. Bad thing about the bible is that one chatper can be interpreted 10 different ways thus making everything that a non christian do as evil because the bible said so. On the other hand, everything you can point at them can be refuted because you will get the typical excuse "the bible says". I feel closer to the Norse and old Gallic mythology than I do to anything else, but that is just me.
    To end it, I shall quote Nietzsche who said "Christianity came into existence in order to lighten the heart; but now it has first to burden the heart so as afterwards to be able to lighten it. Consequently it shall perish". Nietzsche's Human, all too Human which by the way is an excellent book.

    NP : Morgoth - Pits of Utumno
     
  13. wintermetalsmith

    wintermetalsmith patterns in the ivy

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    There are a thousand things that i could say, and i'm sure there are a thousand things that each of us could say, that would go unheeded. but, i must say this.

    First, you cannot be agnostic atheist, lunar. The two are different words that have different meanings, and cannot be put together. Agnostics don't know what they believe, they have no religion. and atheists do have religion, they believe that there is no God. You can be one, the other, or neither, but you cannot be both. Obviously, you seem a bit confused, and you want peple to think that you know what you're talking about.

    And, by the way, cussing me out destroys any wisdom that otherwise might have been within you. Cussing is like using poor grammar - it just makes people sound like they're mexican, or a punk teenager.

    And no, Christianity is not a system of "dont do this" laws. It is a deep relationship, and it does take faith. You had mentioned that there's nothing tangible to put our faith in. You seem a bit confused here as well, because, if i can touch it, i don't need faith to know it's real. After having prayer after prayer answered, and after having the peace and security of God within me, the knowledge that He is real is just a byproduct of what has been, and what is.
    Also, no one can be born into Christianity. It is a personal choice - though one can be surrounded by it and brought up in a "Christian" lifestyle, one must make the personal decision that he or she wants Christ as his or her saviour from sin and Hell.

    Belgar, no, i'm not swedish. but i have learned a little bit of swedish as a result of my love for Nordic and Scandinavian culture and history. I'd like to learn more, because jag forstar bara liten svenska. I don't have aol or aim, but i like talking to others that like vikings...i only have one friend that likes vikings, and he's in missouri (where i'm from and where i will be returning to when i finish school here in fl). everyone in orlando is just mexican, or they wish they were....maybe that's partly why i have the wrath of the norse within....

    keep up the METAL
     
  14. M.

    M. my hair could beat you up

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    he didnt cuss you out
     
  15. LunarTower

    LunarTower Child of Decadence

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    Eeeeennnnntttt... Wrong, there are 2 classifications for Atheism,

    Pragmatic Atheists= Atheists whom believe that there is no higher form such as divinity and claim to know this as fact.
    Agnostic Atheists= Atheists whom believe that there is no higher form such as divinity, but do not claim that it is not possible.

    (Good job knowing what your talking about by the way... oh right, and CHUMPED!)

    Its followers need to stop their protection of a weak antiquity of a cult, its worthless existance doesn't deserve any more blood. From day one, christianity has been nothing but a fantasy-world that has no practical applications for reality, it is a degenerative, festering wound upon humanity. Christians deserve no respect until they cast off their *wrong* and *moronic* belief system and make their own path in life... in other words, become a non-christian.


    Confused I am not, I know exactly that which I believe, I believe that Christianity needs to be purged from the planet, lest it deter humans from intelligence and mental progression even further...
     
  16. Patric

    Patric Member

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    I'm a Nihilist so neither officicial nor Pagan religions make any sense for me, except Asatru and such is bad arse. But official religions make up the worst example ever because it's all a big mess of war, power and very stupid human beings. Like all other religion gone wrong. The reason we make up this stupid shit in the first place is to try to prove that life actually IS worth living OR that even if it's unbearable, there's still a heaven a place beyond the grave. Thus, faith is like an opium since we're too weak to aknowledge the fact that we world and our lives are one big, chaotic grey blur of NOTHING and will be that until the day we die.
     
  17. Heavy Metal Samurai

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    I was told by a "Christian" in Liverpool town centre that I would go to Hell for listening to Metal.

    He also said that gay people should be killed, for "tempting children with their way of life"

    I don't like Christianity either, there are a lot of bad things done in the name of God. Some of the bible stories are taken from other mythologies, the story of death and ressurection after 2 days directly relates to an Egyptian religion, the story of Isis and Osiris, if anyone is interested.

    I find it strange that someone listens to Amon Amarth and is a Christian, quite a contradiction I think, Christians should hate Amon Amarth, like they are told to hate a lot of things.

    NP - Immolation - Unholy Cult
     
  18. gcele

    gcele färdas naken

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    I am, as Douglas Adams described it, a "radical atheist" - I don't believe there aren't any gods, I am convinced there aren't any gods. Science can explain so much more than any silly religion can, and what can't quite be explained by science ("what was there before the Big Bang?") can't be explained by religion either ("what was there before God/Ymir et al?").

    Nevertheless, I'm a tolerant guy.

    Christianity becomes, like any other religion, what you make of it. Some christians are kind and tolerant people who really could serve as a role model to many atheists/agnostics I know (and of course, some christians are assholes who'd be better of if they were wiped out by the Cosmic Toilet Paper). I don't think the world should be quite like Nietzsche described it, I don't "love peace as a means for war". Our strength as humans lies not in individuals, but in numbers, and it always has - hey, guess why we've got societies? All that bullshit about the strife and the struggle being the "natural way" is just - well, bullshit. War has seldom come up with anything good... except for in the view of the ravens, perhaps. Sometimes it's the least bad option, but seeing war or physical struggle as "natural selection"... didn't you know that to be judged fit for being a soldier, you must pass certain physical tests? Thus, the strong die.

    Well, basically I think Patric summed up pretty much what I think (or rather, am convinced of) about the world. There is no point in anything, no right or wrong, except for what points or moral standards you yourself might set up.

    As for being a christian listening to AA... well, I don't know about that, but are all who listen to Burzum nazis?
     
  19. Heavy Metal Samurai

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    I wouldn't say that all Burzum fans are Nazi's.

    I just find it strange, Amon Amarth's lyric's are mostly Anti-Christian songs, this is hatred and vengence aimed at a specific group of people.

    So these Christians who are supposed to be offended and ashamed of what was done in Sweden,Norway,etc. in the name of their god.

    And yet some Christian people sit quite happily listening to God, His Son and Holy Whore. :confused:

    How many Jews do you think listen to Burzum? Not many I'd guess.

    Interesting topic by the way.
     
  20. Aggressor

    Aggressor Einherje

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