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The great and all powerful religion thread!

Discussion in 'GMD Social Forum' started by cookiecutter, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    I can run with this. So, vaguely speaking about several situations in my life: What I believe to be [God] pushed me/told me to do several things/react certain ways in/to situations that I normally would not and I listened and did [what I was told] and it turned out great, whereas if I had followed conventional thought or done what I normally would do it wouldn't have turned out good.

    Now I take this as personal evidence of a higher power. Obviously this can't count as evidence to people who didn't have my experience, but you cannot tell me I am somehow illogical for analyzing my own situation and drawing a conclusion other than "omg you have voices in your head from an imaginary friend."
     
  2. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    You are illogical for attributing it to "what I believe to be [God]" without having any reason to believe that it is "[God]" other than your mental faculties suggesting to you that it is. I have gone against my will to instead do what "something inside of me" told me is the right thing to do, but I'm not sitting here claiming that my decision was divinely inspired. It is true that religious beliefs can sway people into "doing the right thing," but there is no possible or logical way to conclude that "[God]" pushed you in the right direction just because you had a change of heart. It could be the very nature of the fact that your beliefs were changing that made you decide to act differently, and that can work both ways, both toward and away from religion.
     
  3. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    No. See, you didn't have my experience so it is impossible for you to try and explain it away with reasoning that doesn't fit what happened to me it all.
    What I have experienced most definitely did NOT come from me. I'll give you that the reason I recognized it as [God] and a particular one at that, does fall to a large degree on upbringing. However, the arguement can be made that [it] didn't have to "identify" itself because He knew I knew.
    Regardless, it does not exclude the supernatural aspect in general, which is what you tried to do.
     
  4. Cythraul

    Cythraul Active Member

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    "the very nature of the fact"

    I like when people say stuff like that.
     
  5. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    Stop.

    Me too, which is why I say it.
     
  6. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    If all you're trying to say is that what you believe seems true to you simply because you believe it, then there's really nothing to discuss, is there? There's no way to argue against something like that, and to 'take it in context', as you insist that I do, would require me to make the same leap of faith that you do, which would be silly of me.

    I mean, I don't know if you really even want to debate this kind of stuff. I just find it funny (and a little frustrating) that you talk about truth so much when all you mean by truth is "truth according to Christianity".
     
  7. AchrisK

    AchrisK Weakling

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    One impasse I think we have is that you seem to be requiring some type of empirical, scientific evidence for God, when you know that will not happen. You are reducing all things to natural, and saying that anything you can't put under a microscope is nonexistent.


    I still maintain that evidence is just stuff. It is stuff we evaluate in order to make decisions. Now I admit that each piece of evidence points to an actual truth, but we often don't really know exactly what that truth is. Both science and law (and just about everything else) illustrate that often the evidence is wrongly evaluated, but we do the best we can, and we learn from our mistakes.

    There are things which people use as evidence for their belief in Christianity. Usually it is a lot of small things over a long period of evaluation. Sometimes it is more dramatic things. But you cannot say that the beliefs are invalid based on the fact that you disagree with the conclusion others have come to, based on their own collections of evidence.

    You can keep making your point valid by defining evidence as empirical proof, but why waste time?

    Thanks for clearing that up. I will just add that Christianity is presented as a personal belief in a personal God. It is not presented in a way that makes it obvious to all. It seems to be part of the design of Christianity. I am convinced that this has something to do with God granting and maintaining total free will for mankind.
     
  8. AchrisK

    AchrisK Weakling

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    Dude, you are impossible. The context is the conversation in which the statements were made. For you to evaluate my statements in context only requires that you read and comprehend the entire conversation so that you understand the reasons for the statements that were made. I was never trying to debate or prove anything, just to explain a statement I made like 2-3 pages back.
     
  9. V.V.V.V.V.

    V.V.V.V.V. Houses Ov Mercury

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    My parents don't really give a shit.

    As to this discussion, I really find it funny when religious people, Christians especially, try to utilize the words "absolute truth" like a hammer of justice for their religion. Good job exemplifying things that have previously caused horrifying travesties of human nature. Keep going!
     
  10. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    @ Ack:

    Actually, you did try to debate or prove something in this post:

    Now, perhaps you originally had no intention of getting into a debate, then changed your mind once I started attacking you. But you're definitely exaggerating the extent to which I was "taking you out of context", since you obviously did some debating during the course of our exchange.
     
  11. V.V.V.V.V.

    V.V.V.V.V. Houses Ov Mercury

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    Dakryn: so...if it's just your personal evidence, what gives you the right to tell other people they are wrong or that you know what truth is or that God exists and this is the truth?
     
  12. CAIRATH

    CAIRATH Astral Disaster

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    That is pretty sad in many ways. Personally I have never had to deal with this as neither of my parents are religious (neither is anyone in the rest of my family, as far as I know).
     
  13. False Joe

    False Joe Who cares.

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    That's one of the lucky things about living in this country, or just possibly the area I grew up in, but my parents aren't religious in anyway really. They christened my brother, but didn't really bother for me, and I've never been raised with any particular morals other than the common sense ones.
     
  14. Vimana

    Vimana Member

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    I'm gonna raise my kids agnostics. Maybe when they're a certain age I'll explain every major religion to them to see what they think fits them.
     
  15. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    Personally, I don't, unless someone asks my opinion.

    You obviously didn't understand one word of my posts, or AcKs for that matter.

    @Dodens "Stop" is right because you can't attack a personal experience you don't know anything about. However [stupid] you may feel that someone else's personal experiences are, to argue against them is more so.
     
  16. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    What are you talking about? Explain to me how I'm misinterpreting your posts. You definitely talked about taking the possibility of a truth as actual truth.
     
  17. AchrisK

    AchrisK Weakling

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    What Dak said, but furthermore I think that some of you are ignoring the logical facts of Christianity and of Atheism. By believing one of them, you are automatically calling the other one false. By believing that there is no God, you automatically are of the opinion that all Christians are wrong. So we could just as easily say to you, "what gives you the right to tell all people with a belief in God that they are wrong?" In addition, it is obvious to anyone who pays attention to these discussions that the Atheists are constantly actually saying that Christians are bumbling idiots for believing in this invisible God. In contrast, the Christians typically do not directly call the Atheists wrong, even though it is their position by default. So it's time to stop crying.
     
  18. V.V.V.V.V.

    V.V.V.V.V. Houses Ov Mercury

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    That isn't how truth OR opinion work, sorry.

    The thing is, it's not about how we treat each other, it's about why.
     
  19. AchrisK

    AchrisK Weakling

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    Look at my post which you just quoted. You can match it point for point with ridiculous statements in the post of yours which it was in reply to (which I added above for your consideration).

    Now pick out any of my points and tell me what is wrong with them.
     
  20. AchrisK

    AchrisK Weakling

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    I don't comprehend your points.
     

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