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The US is going to Hell, Health Care for Everyone...

Discussion in 'Bar' started by Genius Gone Insane, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. Loren Littlejohn

    Loren Littlejohn Lover of all boobage.

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    I read the story and I have to say I find it quite comical that you are automatically "right wing spokespeople" if you criticize the AHC.

    Funny I really don't consider healthcare a right/left issue (as someone who considers themselves somewhat on the right in some ways, I would have no problem with a single payer healthcare system). But I also understand I'm reading an editorial.

    Anyhow I did find that interesting. I wonder how all three insurance plans compared. I have no doubt the original $54 plan was indeed shitty garbage but I wonder how the expensive alternative plan they offered compared to the alternative one they found.
     
  2. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    I should have mentioned that Addictinginfo is a progressive mouthpiece. Still, this narrative does go a long way to explaining some of the confusion currently.
    One of the frustrating things with the ACA is that it's so polarized politically that few steps are being made to fix the problems. I don't want to deny real problems but many of the issues involved seem to be wholly manufactured with disinformation, scams and selective reporting.
    Here is the article that was the source for that op ed. Still a left leaning source but more fact centric.
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare
     
  3. He's Dead, Jim

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    The problem with anecdotes- which are being used by both sides in this debate (not criticizing people on this forum for citing them, but in the media writ large)- is that they are completely meaningless. It doesn't actually whether Joe in Ohio had his plan cancelled, or whether Jane in Arkansas got a better, cheaper plan. The only thing that matters is whether (a) previously uninsured people sign up, and (b) whether those people are healthy enough to drive aggregate costs down. If those two things happen, some of the costs that are shifted to new or different people will be worth it because everyone will benefit over the long term.

    And we won't know that until at least the end of 2014, if not 2015 or 2016, especially since nobody is 100% sure whether the impressive cost declines since 2008 have been due to the recession or to employer/insurer expectations of the effects of the ACA.
     
  4. scorpio01169

    scorpio01169 Member

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    Let's be totally honest here...it's not that the ACA became law...it's the president who helped make it law. If this was done by the republicans the right would be all for it.
     
    #84 scorpio01169, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
  5. Loren Littlejohn

    Loren Littlejohn Lover of all boobage.

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    Anyone else's insurance premiums going up this year?

    Mine is, deductible is going up as well. Thus far other than free birth control (whoop de shit), I have not seen an upside to the ACA.

    I was indifferent, I'm convinced it's shit at this point. I noticed that no federal level Dems did any sort of campaigning on it. Almost like they were trying to distance themselves from it.
     
  6. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    My premiums have gone up every single year I've had insurance. I litterally pay 2.5 times what I did a decade ago and the ACA only accounts for the last 5% of the increases.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...age-of-10-before-affordable-care-act/9960093/
     
  7. He's Dead, Jim

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    Oops, giant pic. Anyway, here are the links:

    http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/U8i...sset/file/681106/benchmark_plan_changes.0.png

    http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/snap6_1.gif?w=750&h=567

    Deductibles and premiums have been increasing for decades. The ACA may be responsible for a modest reduction over the last several years. And the employer mandate hasn't even kicked in yet. The reason Democrats distanced themselves from it is because it's unpopular because Republicans completely poisoned the well. If you poll people on the individual parts or call it something else (Kentuckyans LOVE their state exchange- Google it) the negative impressions disappear. Seriously, if GWB or Romney had passed this law as president I'd be satisfied with it too, and so would the rest of America.
     
  8. scorpio01169

    scorpio01169 Member

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    Exactly!!!!

    Which is what is said before.
     
  9. Genius Gone Insane

    Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com

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    from now on when kids look at their history books, they'll see a president who isn't white, someone who brought healthcare to everyone, someone who stood up for queers. Call me a socialist but based on that obama is one of the greatest presidents of all time

    and he is still one corrupt son of a bitch

    also, this country is fucked anyway
     
  10. indecizo

    indecizo Member

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    I hate to admit it but this was pretty good.
     
  11. Loren Littlejohn

    Loren Littlejohn Lover of all boobage.

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    So calling it the ACA was just the selling point?

    So he is not a lying POS? Where the flying fuck is this $2500 he is talking about?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so

    Just a sound bite to get idiots to vote for him?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI
     
  12. He's Dead, Jim

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    Public policy doesn't always work out 100% the way people want it to. Obama was making a case for a law he thought would reduce premiums and deductibles, and if you take a look at the graph I posted or any serious study (Brookings and RAND are good, unbiased places to start) you'll see that, so far, it looks like it's working, just like Romney's law in Mass. Some of the pieces still have yet to go into effect, and yeah, some components are going to function better than others because healthcare is a complicated sector. There seems to be this visceral hatred people have of the law because it's associated with the president that I just don't get. Romney did a good job implementing Romneycare. Obama's doing a good job. I'm sure if it were McCain or Paul Ryan or any Republican, they would also have made some valuable reforms to the sector. It's not worth getting so worked up about and calling the president a lying sack of shit, at least to me.

    Anyway, here's a good piece on it.
     
  13. Loren Littlejohn

    Loren Littlejohn Lover of all boobage.

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    :lol:

    I fucking despise Romney.

    It really wouldn't matter who passed this, I don't get how the math can work out.

    I'm not basing my judgement on a left right thing. It's pure how it was prior to ACA compared to now and I can tell you healthcare for me personally was much cheaper before the ACA. Insurance is apart of the problem not the solution, we need to just socialize it like everyone else and be done with it.

    For example I fucking despise NYS governor, like pure fucking hate. I can't stand that less than 10% of the geographical area of NYS can dictate who the governor is. But I think it was pretty kick ass that he passed the marriage equality act of 2011.

    Funny thing about our governor is that he isn't considered progressive enough. It seems the new wave of progressive means government up your ass in every facet of life/ everything is broken so fix everything and when it doesn't work that just means we didn't do enough of that thing.
     
  14. Loren Littlejohn

    Loren Littlejohn Lover of all boobage.

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    I'll never get the government I want so for now it seems I can only criticize (or praise) what politicians have done or what ideas they have.
     
  15. Genius Gone Insane

    Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com

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    Ya I hear you -- I am torn too because it really sucks how much health care prices have gone up. Even for a dirty, hairy-armpitted tie-tye shirted, left-wing, putin-friendly lesbian like me it is difficult to be happy with healthcare for everyone. Foot's not in mouth yet but it is on its way up.
     
  16. He's Dead, Jim

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    Yeah, Cuomo does seem pretty awful, and it's hilarious to me that the two options are either an uninspiring, apparently corrupt Democrat and a bunch of far-left loonies who tried to primary him this year. The DC metro region isn't exactly awesome politically but I don't envy NY staters as far as politicians go :lol:
     
  17. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    I mostly agree. I think mandating purchase of service from for profit insurance companies is a bad long term plan. However, I think that employers and insurance companies have used the passage of the ACA as a get out of jail free card on rate increases and coverage decreases. Ultimately this should come out in the wash once the full act is in effect and the profit limits have have settled the overcharging. None of that solves your short term issues o/c.
     
  18. Loren Littlejohn

    Loren Littlejohn Lover of all boobage.

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    BTW Obama supports net neutrality so fuck yeah Obama and Ted compared it to the ACA so fuck Ted and the GOP. :lol:

    See I can get on board with the Democrats sometimes. :lol:
     
  19. Soul Forlorn

    Soul Forlorn Member

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    My health insurance premiums (through my employer) are going up significantly this year. Last year too. Generally, there's an increase every year but they were higher over the last 2 years than before. My employer and the insurance company blame Obamacare. Whether or not it's true, I tend to believe it. Makes sense to me.
     
  20. TheWinterSnow

    TheWinterSnow Den Mørke Natt

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