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the USA thread -

Discussion in 'Dark Tranquillity' started by La Rocque, May 11, 2007.

  1. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    I wasn't suggesting that Democrats were in favor of deregulation, but they clearly had a hand in one of the single greatest acts of deregulation. Even if it's a general Republican belief, the Democrats got behind and helped push this one.

    Personally, I feel you have to blame the Bush administration. Constantly urging people to spend like mad after 9/11 did stave off a financial collapse, but it didn't stop there. Irresponsible citizen's and lenders, working under the freedom granted by GLB, worked together to double the volume of American debt six years. Somehow, no one noticed.

    It is also interesting to think that GLB was itself an undoing of regulations put in place by Democrats immediately after the Great Depression to ensure that something like that didn't happen again.
     
  2. anita_job

    anita_job Member

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    Yes. Every time Clinton signed and championed "Republican" legislation - NAFTA, kicking poor people esp. poor kids off welfre - he was just doing it because he "had no choice." Right.

    The Democrats have championed and pushed deregulation and bailouts since Carter.

    A nice little tidbit about the Democrats and deregulation from the Frontline website:

    Just days after the administration (including the Treasury Department) agrees to support the repeal, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the former co-chairman of a major Wall Street investment bank, Goldman Sachs, raises eyebrows by accepting a top job at Citigroup as Weill's chief lieutenant. The previous year, Weill had called Secretary Rubin to give him advance notice of the upcoming merger announcement. When Weill told Rubin he had some important news, the secretary reportedly quipped, "You're buying the government?"

    The two parties represent only one class in America.
     
  3. Lina

    Lina kickass elizabethan style

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    Republicats, Democrans, blah blah blah...
     
  4. DisplayofCharacter

    DisplayofCharacter Are You Scared Enough?

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    Yeah, its hard to care when I realized I won't have any money. Ever. Dumpy economy is dumpy.
     
  5. plintus

    plintus Señor Member

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    Haha, I'm like your yearly allowance in the red after today :heh: In one fucking day!

    Time to buy, bitch! Shit is hitting the fan, but I see no way from here but up. Slowly, but surely.
     
  6. Lina

    Lina kickass elizabethan style

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    No, I was being facetious. I think there are huge differences between the two parties.
     
  7. DisplayofCharacter

    DisplayofCharacter Are You Scared Enough?

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    The irony is that I was going to use a student loan for some spending money so I can get some stuff I need, maybe a few items I don't. Now I'm worried I won't even get the damn loan even though I should. Regardless, being a student kind of sucks financially, moreso now than before IMO. (in before baww Suwat)

    I wasn't being quite serious either. However, I do find the economic problems more interesting than inter-party tiffs. Having followed this election with somewhat-more-than-passing interest (more than mild, eh, whatever, hard for me to quantify) I do care about the difference.

    I just find the dramatics to be a bit over-bearing, that is to say as long as they don't influence the election out of my favorite candidate's interest.
     
  8. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    We are all completely screwed in this next election, I feel. Hence, in the spirit of levity, I have symbolically replaced all instances of the letter "L" in the word election with letter "R" in your quote above.
     
  9. DisplayofCharacter

    DisplayofCharacter Are You Scared Enough?

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    I laughed. Nice job.
     
  10. dada

    dada quis est tua pater?

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    The billions for millionaires was passed

    The problem was not bad regulation, its no regulation.
    There was regulation until Phil Gramm as member of Congress
    single-handedly drove the USA financial system to the ground.

    http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

    As an ordinary person, who is frustrated by the government
    and where independent thinking is not heard
    maybe Shakespeare said it best
    and the next time they come for a bailout,

    "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers*"
    Dick the Butcher, Henry VI, Act 4, Scene 2

    *politicians
     
  11. plintus

    plintus Señor Member

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    I don't see it that way.
     
  12. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    @dada: Interestingly, I have a coffee mug with that quote on it that I keep at work. I work for a law firm.

    The thing about this bailout is that version that was passed was actually worse than the one that was turned down. This one basically includes a metric f-ton of tax breaks for local industries, so that congress-critters can claim that they were "looking out for their constituents." Of course, tax breaks for industry just means that I'll have to work that much harder to pay for this load of BS.

    Granted, part of the intent of this bill was to make sure that there is liquid cash floating around for people who need credit. I'll probably be moving up to home ownership once housing prices bottom out, and I'll need that credit slack to get my mortgage. It's my money anyway, right? I actually know a guy who was just approved for a $350k mortgage, but had to wait a few days for the bank to get the money together for him.

    Make sure to get out and vote. The reason this bill passed in the form that it did is because the government knows that the collective of American businesses exerts a lot more power than voters.
     
  13. Lina

    Lina kickass elizabethan style

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    Yeah, the amount of pork and little pet projects in the bill is astounding, given how serious the situation is. But apparently they didn't have time to write new legislation from scratch, so they cobbled together a bunch of pending financial bills, already written. So now there are all these random things in it.

    I was torn last Friday. On the one hand, part of me didn't want it to pass. Something had to be done, but I wanted them to keep hashing it out. On the other hand, I work for Congress, and passage means I'm basically off until January. So I'd be lying if I said I shed any tears.
     
  14. rahvin

    rahvin keeper of the flame

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    Did your La Rocque account get banned or something? Just curious.
     
  15. Lina

    Lina kickass elizabethan style

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    I thought that too.
     
  16. Misanthrope

    Misanthrope Latin, NOT Mexican.

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    No offense to anybody in particular ( offense to everybody impersonally of course, im the fucking Misanthrope after all ) but it sounds so stupid when you speak about degrees and examples of deregulation. Social Democracy and moderate regulation its quite pointless at this point were the free market economy has advanced so much it can just reach out for derregulated third world countries to literally pillage and plunder until there's nothing left.

    Globalism has made most regulatory arguments utterly irrelevant from a political and socio-economical point of view.
     
  17. anita_job

    anita_job Member

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    Nonsense. The repeal of acts like Glass-Steagall had nothing to do with globalization and everything to do with the current meltdown.

    The notion that globalization has made regulation irrelevant is a myth pushed by professional hacks like Thomas Friedman and other apologists for corporate rule, many of whom have now recanted in the face of the resulting disaster and are now clamoring for more regulation.
     
  18. Mr. Leviathan

    Mr. Leviathan Member

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    Ah the US presidential election is exciting, and I can't imagine what it would be like in the United States.
     
  19. Defiance

    Defiance I vårens ljusa kvällar

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    ^ Yeah, Obama will certainly win (right now he has 207, whilst McCain has 135), I guess that's good (at least for the US) :p .

    Edit:

    Funny thing that I finish making the post and I hear Obama elected president! :p

    Well I say it's pretty amazing that he has won without Florida, he has 297 and McCain has 135.
     
  20. Mr. Leviathan

    Mr. Leviathan Member

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    Without Florida - that is amazing! Although it looks like Florida might go to Obama. This is good for the entire world; I regard the United States as a great nation and I hope that President Obama can restore it to its greatness and can make it a force for good in the world again.

    EDIT: It was very exciting following the election results as they came, what a campaign!

    Senator McCain's concession speech was very nice, also.

    Yes, Florida goes to Obama.
     

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