This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

  1. Just a heads up... In the next week or two we will be making some major upgrades to the site to bring the software and server fully up to date. While the upgrade happens the site will be offline for the day. There will be some quirkiness after the upgrade, but we'll get it all sorted out.
    Dismiss Notice

The world is falling down on me...

Discussion in 'Dark Tranquillity' started by mousewings, Jun 15, 2003.

  1. mousewings

    mousewings Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,626
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I feel absolutely horrible right now.

    For the past few months, I befriended a guy who I later became close to (as friends). He said he was going to commit suicide this September, but I thought I could talk him out of it, and that he wasn't all that serious. Based upon the months after this during which we talked (by messages and email), I later thought he was serious about this. Also, I know he isn't an alterego or fake based upon a lot of things (the facts he stated about himself, running a search through google and a phone book, etc). The message he sent me today would probably be his last one, and I don't know if I should respond and beg him to not do it or just bid him farewell even if I don't know how to do that and not be overemotional... I consider him to be a great friend and he's one of few people I can trust and who I'm close to. I can't even alert his family of his plans as he lives in Germany.

    He says he's going to commit suicide this Tuesday. I feel so helpless and sick over this as I wanted to stop him. I'm now not sure what to do now. I feel depressed and guilty, as I didn't talk to him the past while...

    This is taking its toll on me as I'm going through other problems right now. I don't even know why I'm writing this as it all sounds so unbelievable. I just felt I had to talk about this, as I don't even have anyone close here who I can talk to right now. I can't even show that I'm upset if anything happens... I'm not sure how I'm going to cope...
     
  2. rahvin

    rahvin keeper of the flame

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    17,576
    Likes Received:
    245
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    safe but not far from the city
    it's not unbelievable that you befriended a guy over the internet. it's not unbelievable that he expressed suicidal intentions to you. it's not unbelievable that he said he's going to take his life on tuesday, and it's not unbelievable that you're upset.

    i find slightly unbelievable that he is going to take his life on tuesday, however. i could name three reasons:

    - statistically, people who end up taking their lives are a tad too troubled to make suicide a normal conversation piece during their online chat sessions;
    - statistically, people who end up taking their lives do not plan the date of the event with such precision, three days in advance. most of all, they don't go tell others about it
    - statistically, people who end up taking their lives are not the depressed ones you find on the net, who sound like they can't keep their shit together for more than two seconds.

    in short, i think he's faking it. he might not have the will to trick you, but my guess is he's faking it.
    even aside from this opinion, i don't see what your role could be in the situation: if he's going to, he needs professional help that all your caring can't provide. if he's not going to, worrying about it only means encouraging him pulling this scam.

    i have little for compassion for real and fake would-be suiciders. they end up jeopardizing the peace of mind of others for something they're too weak to face themselves. but if you have become close to this guy, there are ways to reach his family - even before tuesday, if you know his name and whereabouts in germany - and tell them he needs professional help, if he's serious about the suicide thing. then, along with some therapy and counselling, you could talk to him again and maybe just "be there" when he needs someone to feel that the world cares for him.

    rahvin.
     
  3. mousewings

    mousewings Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,626
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Thanks rahvin. I felt really stupid after I posted this, as I thought no one would believe me. Ergh, yeah, a few friends I've talked to think he's faking as well. I'm not sure myself, but this upsets me.

    For tracking his family down, I do know his name (first and last) and location, but am not sure how to contact his family since I don't know their names nor ways of finding them. I'm also not sure if they'll even believe me (a total stranger).

    Most of all, no one knows I'm using these boards, phone bills are tracked, etc., so I can't call them from here or I risk my neck.

    I'll need help to track him down, have someone call his family (since I can't do it), but I'm not sure how to find it. I really want to believe he's faking, but I'm not sure and it worries me.

    I'm also rambling again in my confusion...
     
  4. Wolfman Von Jones

    Wolfman Von Jones The trouble with you

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Chicago
    I told you more or less the exact same thing Rahvin just did afew months ago. I still think the guy is a bullshit artist.

    Nick
     
  5. rahvin

    rahvin keeper of the flame

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    17,576
    Likes Received:
    245
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    safe but not far from the city
    @mousewings: you could ask someone else you know who lives in germany for help. don't worry about his family "not going to believe you": if they're totally unaware of any trouble this supports the idea of him faking it. if they know of something they'll keep a close watch on him. even if they are doubtful, that would still somehow disrupt his plans (for tuesday) should they be for real. and if they're not for real, well, the crybaby learns a lesson in causing alarm.
    anyway, as much you try and do this time, you can't expect to repeatedly prevent a german guy to take his life all the way from canada. it's not your responsibility either, you shouldn't be put through anything of the sort.

    rahvin.
     
  6. rahvin

    rahvin keeper of the flame

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    17,576
    Likes Received:
    245
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    safe but not far from the city
    what a day! not only is nogie here, but with a brand new dark tranquillity signature too. :Spin:
    welcome, 12-thousand posts n00b. :p

    maybe i'm just inexperienced on the subject but i don't really buy into the theory of apparently completely ok guys just taking their lives overnight. better yet, if there is such a thing, they're the kind of people who doesn't give out cries for help to online friends. my guess is if he's talking about deadlines on tuesday left and right, his parents might have a general idea he's depressed or he has issues. stuff like that.


    of course. i won't get into details about what that would mean to me, as i already made it clear i don't really feel pity for would-be suiciders, though.


    my opinion is he wanted to be saved. those who really wanna end it aren't really that cheap on the number of pills. and this just goes to show, mousie is probably worrying too much. :)

    rahvin.
     
  7. mousewings

    mousewings Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,626
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Thank you Nick, Nogie, and rahvin for answering and for your ideas...

    I'm not really sure what to think, as he wrote me back, saying he is now going to end his life on the 26th... also asking for my address, as he wants to send me something to remind me of him. I'm not even sure what to say to him or what to do. Say that I refuse to give my address until he promises not to hurt himself and try for more time this way?... Stupid idea, and it probably won't work, but I'm running out of them. I'll try to talk him out of it and bide time while I think of something, if anything...

    I hope he just wants my attention and isn't serious, as he seems to have too many plans (concern with his schoolwork, life, etc.) to be considering this. Most of his suicide plans concern jumping (off bridges, cliffs, etc.), so I don't think there'll be a second chance if he does go through with them.

    Anyways, I've kept all correspondences I've had with him, so I know where he lives and his home city... He lives in another city apart from his family, so I'm not even sure if they could force him to get help.

    The problem with this is I don't know anyone in Germany closely enough to ask for help, and don't feel I could just ask someone I vaguely know to spend time and help me with so much. I'm sure it would make me feel a lot better, as they would probably try to help him and me. I agree with what Nogie says, I feel I can't do this alone.

    Argh, also my computer is taking a great time to be a slow piece of crap, so I can't even write or research a lot. I don't know what to say to him... I've written a draft letter which tells him how much he means to me, and begging him not to do anything rash. I'm not sure if I should send it, but I probably will.

    I really want to get help in contacting his family, but I'm not sure where to go or who to ask...
    Any ideas?
     
  8. Steve

    Steve New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    11,958
    Likes Received:
    643
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Fairfield, CT (USA)
    It looks like he keeps setting dates then pushing them back. I think it would be best to tell him to promise he won't hurt himself, and a promise between friends is something really important. If you want to look at something like this, search for "ethereal sadnes" on the Nevermore board. it is a really sad and interesting story. I really don't know what to say. Maybe tell him you would like to meet him and go on vacation to Germany? I really don't know...

    Steve
     
  9. rahvin

    rahvin keeper of the flame

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    17,576
    Likes Received:
    245
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    safe but not far from the city
    if you really are that worried and can't find anyone else from germany, just make an international phone call to his parents, regardless of the fact they don't live in the same town. then hope they speak english and explain the situation. you could also write a letter: with the fastest mail options it should get there way before the 26th. if he goes to school or university or if he's got a job, also consider mailing any institution he might be involved with as a worker or a student. failing that, even authorities in the town he lives in could be an option.
    this was advice. what follows is opinion:
    he's playing with you, and once you find out he is you're gonna hate him. rightfully so, i'd say.

    rahvin.
     
  10. Villain

    Villain Doctor BenQuillity

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Finland
    Mousewings: There's one rule I have tried to follow for the past few years: every suicide-threat, no matter how childish, unbelievable or ridiculous, should always be taken seriously, no matter what. That's my advice to you as well. Not only could it spare his life, but it could also spare you from the worst thing: the feeling that you didn't do anything when you had the chance.

    Thus, I recommend keeping contact with him, being honest and sincere in your own feelings towards his suicidal intents all the time. Take him seriously all the way through and keep asking for his reasons and commenting on them. If in the end he's faking it, it doesn't matter at all. But if he's in it for real, you can feel you did your best and don't need to accuse yourself of anything.

    I find this an excellent idea. As childish as it may appear, it may very well work the best. Another idea I could suggest, is to mention these discussions here - tell him that you don't know what to do and that you have gone for seeking help. You might even tell him that you'd like to contact his parents (although this might be risky, if he's afraid of the possibility that they get to know). If he gives you the phone-number / address of his parents, contact them. Nevertheless, be honest with him - if you are going to use any of the methods Rahvin suggested to contact people around him, tell him of it (otherwise he might think that you have "betrayed" him). If he gets angry about it, be honest and say that you were thinking for his best.

    And to add to Rahvin's list, you might contact local Canadian organisations that work for suicidal or otherwise mentally ill young people (I suppose there are some in Canada). They probably know how to contact their German counterparts. There are also some organisations working in the internet, although I'm slightly sceptical of them myself.

    I won't bother to make any analyses about his person or if he's faking it or not. He might very well be just trying to get your attention (in a most immature way), or "testing" you as people suggest here, but as I said before, that matters very little in the end. Even if you end up hating him because he fooled you, it's nothing compared to the worst possibilities.

    I hope you can find some of this helpful. If you have something to ask, email me at ville.mankinen@humak.edu - I'm very busy and can't read this forum on a daily basis, but I'll promise to try and find time to reply to you, if you email me.

    -Villain
     
    Melancholia, Siren and Rei Toei like this.
  11. Lamia

    Lamia Future Sibylline

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Turku, Finland
    @Mousewings: What I'd want to say is that you shouldn't show him compassion, since that probably is exactly what he's looking for, and if he gets it this way, he'll just keep on tormenting you with farewell-letters and suicide threats.

    So, that is what I would want to say. Anyway, since (as Villain said) statistics are always only statistics and he could actually be serious, I'm going to say the following instead:

    Contact his parents/anyone who knows him or might be able to reach him, no matter how stupid/difficult it may feel. If there's even the slightest possibility that he's serious, any attempt to try and stop him is worth the effort. Saving a life (or even trying to do so) is good enough a reason to ask help from anyone who lives near him and could be able to help him, whether you happen to know this person well or not.

    Whatever you decide to do, I wish you a lot of courage and strength to handle this incident.

    -Lamia
     
  12. Siren

    Siren Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    9,341
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I don't have time to go through all the posts in detail, but from the little things i read, i tend to agree with Villain on this one.
    I don't think being harsh with someone weak enough to think about suicide (no matter if he's actually gonna do it or not, he's still thinking about it) is the best option. From what i've read on the matter so far, those who tell to others about their suicidal thoughts are those who need to be talked out of it and perhaps find a reason not to do it. Also, since he sets dates you could try the "you made it so far, you can hang on a bit more" effect (ie. buy time). And last but not least, maybe all it takes could be showing him you care and perhaps that you need him...



    Siren (hope that makes sense o_O )
     
  13. Onyx

    Onyx Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Saint-Petersburg
    mousewings, I don't understand why are you trying to save the lad if he didn't ask you to do so. If he is too weak to live, he should die. If he doesn't see any good points in life, then he is either blind or sees too much. Anyway, the choice on his life should be made by him and him only, because the life of his belongs to him. You can sincerely tell him of your opinion about him and his decision, but don't beg. Let him know what he is loosing if he dies. Tell him to think it all over before doing something.
    Often those, who want to commit suicide, are constantly looking back to how the other people react on this. A stupid mistake that is, because you're all alone when facing death... You and your life is what connects you to this world. All suicidal people for some purpose think that it'll be better if they die. What if not? Is there any sence in exchanging your world and your life to something unknown? Is there any way to go back?
    I don't know. That is why I think he should decide himself. Your part is to open his eyes as much as possible, since you now have more time. No unneeded weeping, just bare logic.


    I might be totally wrong, though. "Errata humanum est", or "It is typical of man to make mistakes".
     
  14. Incendiare

    Incendiare hejdundrande skitsnack

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2003
    Messages:
    10,307
    Likes Received:
    776
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One of my schoolmates committed suicide a few months ago, and there was nothing anyone could do about it since he didn't show any signs. The only thing you can possibly do for now is just simply talk and comfort. You said you supposedly befriended him. Last thing you should do is feel guilty. That maybe something like this popped up in his head and that has something to do with it. I don't know. I'm really sorry. Everyone said everything I was going to say.
     
  15. FatherVic

    FatherVic MasterMelon

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,964
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    trollcave
    well that's a horrible situation!!!!

    I suppose i come here a bit late (i don't know how people can write in these forums...they're always down when i try) but generally the world is really difficult to deal with...

    I'm also with Villain's ideas...since I'm not so sure about "statistic facts" on this matter...

    now, for a course of action...i'm at a loss for words here, though I really think you shouldn't put pressure on you. Obviously it's a sad moment, but the sadness/madness of this guy shouldn't get deep in you since you deal with a possible mentally ill guy or a faker which is even more mentally ill!!! (IHMO) Hurt is the most probable result on this friendship, but once again the question of "what if your warmth could help a person to forget about suicide?" comes to mind...buffff...

    i hope everything goes ok and there's not a dead guy in Germany today!....

    keep us informed mousie! and cheer up for you are not responsible for others pain!!!!

    fathervic (warm virtual hug)
     
  16. rahvin

    rahvin keeper of the flame

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    17,576
    Likes Received:
    245
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    safe but not far from the city
    errare humanum est.
    errata is a list of corrections on a new edition of a book or paper.

    rahvin.
     
  17. Tebus

    Tebus An abode of few.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Hartford, CT, USA
    I think Villain has the right idea. The thing you have to do is to get him out of his head. There is NEVER any reason to kill yourself. It is purely a selfish act. This person needs to know that there are millions of people that are worse off than him, guaranteed, that have a better outlook on life. You just need to get him out of his head, and get him to see the bigger picture. It's easy to be locked inside your head. So you just need to wake him up. Like Nick Holmes said " I can see know good in taking your own life, when any moment death calls."
     
  18. veil the sky

    veil the sky Lexicon V

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Guildford UK
    smartarsius rahvin est :p
     
  19. Thanatos

    Thanatos payaso

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Messages:
    10,714
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hades
    enanus moderandi
     
  20. Onyx

    Onyx Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Saint-Petersburg
    rahvin, it's a shame I don't know ANY latin, so there are definitely mistakes if I use it for any purposes. But some expressions that I run into are very accurate, so I pick them up. If there are some other mistakes on my part, feel free to remind me of them. I'll be grateful.
     

Share This Page