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Theocracy forum idea

Discussion in 'Theocracy' started by Spyderman-Hyderman, Mar 2, 2005.

  1. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    i record my vox in mono with a really hot mic. i have the gain up a lot, but i stand (or have the singer stand) to the side of it and sing across it to avoid popping and i found that the tone coming through is clear and dynamic. the only downside that i can mention is that sometimes its TOO dynamic, and i have to drop the top off some notes or they'll overpower everything else in the mix.
     
  2. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    when you say "popping" do you mean clipping or actual popping as if the P's, T's are too forcefull? The clipping I see being solved with analogue compression.....a 2:1 ratio as a general rule of thumb. Adding compression after the dammage has been done is useless, as the compression needs to be accomplished between the mic and the mixer or recording device. Do you use a pop filter???
     
  3. Matt Smith

    Matt Smith THEOCRACY

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    That's weird. To record vocals in stereo, you'd have to either record with 2 mics or with a stereo mic. I've never really heard of anyone doing that unless they're going for some kind of specific effect (or unless they're recording a choir, of course). So yeah, I always record vocals mono.
    Don't freak out about the dynamics, just adjust your mic preamp as needed (turn it up for quieter parts), and especially, work the mic. Get close when you want more proximity effect (usually on quiet parts in my case), and back up when you're really letting it rip. Check your gain staging AT ALL STEPS to make sure nothing is clipping. Make sure you're not clipping the preamp's input, the preamp's output, the compressor's input/output (if you're tracking with one), de-esser (if you're using one), EQ, and the input on your soundcard. Sing the loudest passage in the song you're recording and check all these things to make sure everything is going down cleanly.

    I have to say though, since I finally got a nice compressor for tracking vocals (like a month or so ago), it's all SO much easier. I had never sang through a compressor, I always just compressed the vocals at mixdown. Holy cow though, it's like night and day to me. It helps at all levels, from the headphone mix to the final result. Obviously, if you're going to compress on the way in, make sure you know what you're doing or you will shoot yourself in the foot bigtime, because you can't take it off once it's on there. Make sure you have the attack and release set right and that the compressor's not audibly pumping, and all that stuff. Some compressors are more suited for this task than others, to say the least.

    2:1 is a good ratio if you're just trying to keep the peaks under control, but you'll probably need to smack the snot out of it at mixdown if the music is dense and you really want that in-your-face sound. Of course you can ride the fader for every word as an alternative, but don't be afraid to get heavy with the compression on vocals if you know what you're doing with it. I usually hit it 6:1 or 8:1, depending on what compressor I'm using.

    I always use a pop filter. If you still have a problem with pops, you can try taping a pencil to the front of the mic in the center of the diaphragm. Seriously! That's a trick I learned from Michael Wagener, and he knows a thing or two about recording a legendary vocal.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Matt Smith

    Matt Smith THEOCRACY

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  5. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    i was indeed referring to the P & T effect. i'm curious what the pencil does?
     
  6. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    how very unusual...never even heard of the pencil trick.
    I use an old wire coat hanger, that I bent into a ring about the diameter of a coffee cup or soup can and cut up an old pair of panty hose or nylons to wrap over it. Works beautifully. Stops all wind/breath from passing through...seriously you can't feel any wind if you hold your hand on the other side and blow through it but sound penetrates perfectly....another good thing about this is you place it a desired distance from the mic...say 1 or 2 inches so you can press your lips against it and not the mic....I personally don't like spit on my mics. :ill:
     
  7. Matt Smith

    Matt Smith THEOCRACY

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    Since we were on the subject, I recorded a little clip with the POD XT. Got a pretty good tone with it, I think. Let me know how you guys think it sounds.

    POD XT CLIP
     
  8. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    that's more of what I'm tying to get....I don't suppose XT settings would work on the reguular pro model would they? Not compatible. I'd have you email it to me via the Emagic sounddriver.
    Then I just open it in the Pod program and dump it VIA midi to my Pod.
    Excellent sound....I dig it

    here's Tone 3. this is pretty well ideal I think...maybe still too much in the hi end, but nothing a little soft eq can't fix later. (oh and sorry for the sloppyness)
    http://briefcase.yahoo.com/spy_dmx3

    sorry...it's come to my attention that this no longer works. I can view my folders and files at the above link...and even email links to people but public viewing has been disabled unless I pay an anual fee. NOPE!!!.
    i'm not seeing how to upload it here though.
     
  9. Matt Smith

    Matt Smith THEOCRACY

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    I don't think they're compatible. Does the regular POD Pro have the Treadplate Dual amp (based on the Dual Rectifier)? That's what I used in the clip.

    I also recorded the same riff with my Mesa/Boogie Mark IV and my Peavey 5150. I'll try to post them in the next couple of days so you can hear the differences.
     
  10. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    the closest to that that I have is Rectified....based on a '94 mesa boogie dual rectifier.
    it's very close to what you sampled for us. I'm sure with some fine tuning I could nearly match it. Yours sounded like a hybrid of the rectified and the Line 6 insane. (insane is the one you described as dull) again some fine tuning may or may not have solved that. The Rectified deffinately has a more In your face and down your throat presence...which I like....I'm thinking that the pick strike I seek may be related to my pickup itself...factory Alvarez. :dopey:
    Concidered replacing the pickup with an EMG or something of the like but friends in the know insist that it sounds great and I'm imagining things.
    I assume your ESP has a high powered pickup, possibly even active???
     
  11. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    To Silent Song....just curious what you are up to with your band...ie. studio set up(s) direction, style, theme...etc.
    I start recording AGAIN this weekend....no official band members except my drummer. Using session musicians for the rest....it's hard to get good help these days. lol
    For Matt.....now that you have 2 additions to the Theocracy lineup are you considering ever re-recording some of the debut tracks to include them? Or too early to say yet? What new "flavor" can we expect with these live musicians.....and lastly are you finding it easier or more difficult to record with more musicians VS. sequenced and MIDI stuff? whew...what a mouthfull
     
  12. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    studio set up is my stuff: my computer and some mics and my gear. currently i'm the only guy in the band (kinda like Theocracy started :lol: ) but i'm looking for more people. it's difficult to record different instruments when i'm only very good at one of them.

    as for style, i like everything from classical to death metal and it shows in my music. generally though i'd say my sound is very metal-fusion, without the shredding and with more emphasis on melody and groove.
     
  13. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    I can totally relate. It's been just my buddy on drums and MIDI synths and myself guitars and vocals. I don't even want to play guitar anymore, I just want to sing, but someones gotta do it. We keep finding alot of guys who are interested but are either too busy with other projects or just fane interest. We currently have a bass player, keyboards (brilliant keys player and piano teacher) and guitarists galore....but all are just half in half not. So we're relying on session musicians so to speak...we just call 'em if we need em. Not ideal but for recording purposes it's actually more convenient. Looks like I'm doing 100% of the guitar rhythms and leads and the session guys for killer solos to give the songs more life and personality so to speak. So you use your PC. Any Audio interface in particular? My drummer and I split the budget on that one...I have the E-MU 0404 card at my place...very good for the price. And he has the E-MU 1820 as well as an Extigy unit. Anything e-mu IMHO is great.
    I recently reunited with a friend of mine that I did a demo with some years ago. He no longer plays (or even owns) a guitar, but has since devoted his time to audio engineering etc. So he's agreed to give us some hands on help...a huge bonus as his knowledge of MIDI and synths is astounding. He certainly has more patience than I. Matt can no doubt vouch for the red eyes and stiff neck from countless hours of MIDI sequencing.
    I'd be interested in exchanging samples with you...I'm very curious about your sound....perhaps too you could offer me a few suggestions on my own material.
     
  14. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    my sound is very raw and unedited for the most part.

    i use Cubase SX to record and mix/master. i've got an Audigy 2Z soundcard from a while back that serves as my board. basically i either run line-in or use a mic to record from my Marshall stack or GT-6 into that, through my Jackson guitar or the custom i built. I then use Cubase to program drums, take the drum sequence and export it then bring it back for effects and layering to make it sound more real. then i use a patch on the GT-6 to make my guitar sound like bass and record that. finally i'll program keys and other sounds as necessary (i'd rather play keyboard but one isn't available here). i've been toying with singing at times but i'm highly critical of my singing ability. i like the sound of my voice but i'm untrained so my pitch is pretty bad.
     
  15. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    I found Cubase to be sorta complicated....but I really didn't give it much of a go. For the sake of consistency my friend and I both use Sonar 3.1. A good program, very intuitive. Cubase from what I hear is a superior program once you learn it. We also use bits and pieces of Nuendo, Reason, and the DSP/VST FX the E-MU's include. I record direct from the Pod Pro...using digital S/PDIF connection....a touchy thing that is. Audio is prone to clipping not only if volume is too high but certain tonal nuances can cause strange noises to occurr....so analogue is proving to be more reliable.
     
  16. Matt Smith

    Matt Smith THEOCRACY

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    Yup, I use EMG pickups. I love 'em.
     
  17. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    Good plug..THX
     
  18. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    slightly off topic......My drummer came by my place on Friday and gave me a belated B-day present. A Behringer Autocom Pro MDX 1400 compressor. (and I didn't even get him a card for his b-day) I did some research on it and while it's not a super "what the big studio's use" unit....what a cool guy to have given me one. THX KC now hurry up and join this forum.
    I was so excited to open it and hook it up but that wore off quick.. Afterall it's just a compressor....no funky sounds to play with....but the lights are very pretty. A welcome addition to my home studio.
     
  19. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    some people in another forum were discussing cables and wiring, and someone said that using a 1/8" adapter to jack into a soundcard reduces the quality instead of just using a soundcard with a 1/4" in. aside from possible quality differences among these cards, is there really any difference in plug size that affects quality of sound? i was under the impression that they did the same thing in different sizes.
     
  20. Spyderman-Hyderman

    Spyderman-Hyderman more gear than talent:-(

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    I would guess YES that is true. The size of the jack wouldn't really matter...but since you'd likely be using a 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor, that's where you'll find a reduced sound quality. The more adaptors you have to use , the more interference you create, risk of hum, hiss, and parasitic audio loss is increased.
    You can get away with it for basic recording no problem...but you will be limited. Ideally you should invest in a proper PC audio interface. I mentioned my E-MU 0404 in an earlier post. But there are loads of others to choose from depending on how much you want to spend. My card (a bargain at $99USD) has 4 1/4" ins&outs, S/PDIF digital in/out, optical in/out and MIDI/in/out. This makes things way easier having an abundance of proper jacks. But really it all depends on what you hope to achieve.
    http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
    this is possibly one of the best sites for the home studio buff.
    hope this helps.
     

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