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Thermionik 5 - Demo Download Released

Discussion in 'Backline' started by Kazrog, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. [Prime]

    [Prime] Member

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    I wound up throwing TSE808 in front of the amp and turning the amp gain waaaayyy down from the initial preset setting. Made a few other changes and came up with this "improved" clip. There is still something going on in the higher frequencies. Perhaps this is the noise the other poster was referring to?

    http://prime.aspserver.net/Thermionik2.mp3

    Anyway, I wanted to come back and post this "improved" clip in the interest of being fair.

    I would suggest modifying some of those presets. +6db input and amp gain settings of 8-9 seems extreme. JMO.
     
  2. viralz

    viralz Member

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    Thanks Kazrog! I deactivated Avast and everything installed perfectly!
     
  3. Vihaleipä

    Vihaleipä Member

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    I finally tried it and I must say that I'm pretty impresed with how these sims react to playing, they almost feel like playing with a real amp (at least much closer than any other vst ampsim that I've yet tried). I recorded a short clip with my new -86 ESP Mirage Deluxe, there isn't any post processing included, just my ESP into TS-999 - Psycho C - NadIR loaded with Catharsis 1on-preshigh IR.

    I agree with the user [Prime] about the input gain thing, you really should modify those presets to have much lower input gain, I always had to dial it to 0 with every hi-gain preset I tried. Also I was a bit sceptical about the GUI first, but now I absolutely love it, it's so functional and fast to use :D.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    Sounds great!

    Just letting everyone know the demo downloads are back online (after I ran into a pretty serious bandwidth issue last week.) Everything should go much more smoothly now. :)
     
  5. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    ViTAR likes this.
  6. Christian WUFU

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    That's awesome! Thanks, Shane!
    I just downloaded the demo earlier and I'm loving it so far. I'm not experiencing any of the issues others have mentioned either.
     
  7. [Prime]

    [Prime] Member

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    I won't bore you with the details.... But the fact that you think that "sounds pretty good" is honestly one of the most disturbing things I've heard regarding this plugin. JMO.
     
    #27 [Prime], Mar 22, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
  8. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    [​IMG]

    When all you post is a single reamped DI outside of the context of any mix, without even explaining what kind of tone you're looking to get, I don't think you should expect to get much value out of anyone's subjective opinion of the tone. I have no clear idea (beyond guessing) what kind of tone you're trying to achieve here, no musical context, etc. I don't hear anything problematic from a technical standpoint - it sounds like a guitar being run through the real amp in question.

    So, here's my guess. Maybe this particular amp model isn't the right one for the sound that's in your head for this piece of music? There are 24 other models in the Thermionik demo you can try. FWIW, the 5150 isn't the most popular amp for stoner/doom tones in the real world. In Thermionik, I'd try the Duality 2ch for modern doom tones, or even something like the doom preset in the Bassmensch model if you want a more vintage doom sound. Also don't overlook the OgreTuber - it's amazing for saturated modern doom sounds.

    PS - what kind of studio monitors are you using? That can have a huge impact on how you perceive tone, especially within the high frequency area. If, for example, you're using monitors with no published frequency response information, you're going to have a bad time. You literally don't know what you're getting yourself into at that point. I've seen tolerance ranges in affordable "prosumer" monitors of +/- 10dB in the upper frequencies between left and right channel when measured properly. There's a reason some of these companies won't publish graphs.
     
    #28 Kazrog, Mar 23, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  9. [Prime]

    [Prime] Member

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    Actually, I posted 3 clips. The first of which you said sounded pretty good. You never really addressed that in your wall of words. I tried to be diplomatic in my previous comment. But to the point... I can't help but to think that if the developer can't distinguish between good and bad then he may be starting with a distinct disadvantage. No type of frequency response information or monitors will make that first clip sound good. I believe the "problem" lies largely in the preset. My recollection is that the amp gain was set at 9+. Who runs a 5150 (red channel) with 9+ preamp gain? And why would anyone create a preset with +6db input gain? That said, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comment.
     
  10. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    3 clips using the same DI track as the source being processed. All of which sounded fine, to varying degrees, robbed of any context.

    I appreciate that. I know it's hard for you...

    ...because EVERYONE agrees on what makes a good or bad guitar tone. Good and bad are absolutes, and music is not art. At least, in [Prime] village, where the end of fun is the beginning of happiness, and a still tongue makes a happy life.

    o_O

    Said preset was calibrated to an earlier version, and has been adjusted subsequently to better suit the current version and a wider variety of guitars. It's a good idea to mind your input gain, in any case. Factory presets are a starting point, not an endpoint...

    :thumbsup:
     
  11. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    Anyway, back on topic - I use science to analyze and emulate gear. It's up to you what you do with it. My subjective opinions about tone are incidental and irrelevant.

    FWIW, I know what I like to hear from a guitar for a variety of styles, and I can easily achieve it with any of the amp models in the Thermionik collection. I'm also an open minded person when it comes to music, and I don't pretend to know what the sound in your head is. Happy tone questing!
     
  12. [Prime]

    [Prime] Member

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    Congratz!!! That was a good response and actually answers the question in my very first post.

    Do you have Beta Testers? I would think someone would have identified this as a potential "issue".

    So apparently there was a "problem", which resulted in re-calibration of an earlier version, and in turn caused another "problem" with this release (related to presets). That must have been a fairly drastic re-calibration to create the perceived "problem" I asked about initially. And yet, I still felt the knobs do not provide an accurate representation of what I have come to expect from a 5150, ampsim or otherwise.There must have been an error in the science you used to analyze and emulate this gear.

    BTW...I am not a fan of presets.

    Throughout our discussion, you have suggested that perhaps I was not using an impulse that compliments this ampsim or if I was using an impulse at all. You then proceed to tell me about Recabinet.

    I'm not even going to respond to your comments regarding what type of tone I look for... it can vary greatly. I was simply looking for an ampsim that recreates the tone and functionality of a 5150.

    You continued by insinuating that my monitors are possibly a cause and may not properly and/or accurately represent the source material/ampsim. Do I need special Themionik monitors? Everything else I use with my equipment sounds as I would expect.

    Even if your ampsims were actually matched impulse responses of various amplifiers I could still produce something that sounded "decent" with enough work. I was looking for more.
     
  13. [Prime]

    [Prime] Member

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    Can't we just agree to disagree.... Best of luck to you in your current and future endeavors.

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments.
     
  14. nezvers

    nezvers Beast

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    I have all amps from thermionic and through testing them all I didn't hear any artifact that shouldn't be there. Well I wasn't fan of presets, mainly because input and gain was way too much on all hi-gain ones.
    Regards on [Prime] last test it sounded ok. If you have problems with tone and saying it's thermionic, than do test with TSE x50 (or x50v.2) with same DI and cab (no TS) than second round with TS, but keep everything on north except match gain saturation.
     
  15. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    I do. Unfortunately, the factory presets were not tested initially, as the timing simply didn't align with my beta team, all of whom happened to suddenly have some bizzarre life issues come up coincidentally.

    Gain ranging was adjusted in the first few versions after release, to provide a more seamless experience for everyone. It wasn't a drastic thing, though, and literally everyone has been happy other than you.

    It is an accurate representation of the 5150 I personally own. It's a first year block letter model - they do actually sound slightly different than the later signature panel and 6505s. Some of the component tolerances have changed over time, and minute changes can result in audible differences once you get to the end of a tube amp circuit.

    But you spent most of this discussion complaining about one.

    That was before you posted a clip. Hearing the clip, it was obvious you were using an IR right away.

    Thermionik Psycho A does exactly that.

    You seem strangely perturbed by a perfectly usable tone. I've used monitors in some studios that made even great sounding reference material sound awful, so I felt pretty justified in speculating that you may have monitors that are inaccurate. If you're happy with your monitors, then fine.

    All models in Thermionik have been matched and tested against the real hardware. You're getting an accurate emulation of each amp. Maybe you're expecting more from amp sims than you do from guitar amps in the first place? Working with real amps requires knowledge and work as well. Thermionik has been repeatedly praised as having all of the nuance and immediacy of the real amps, though.
     
  16. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    Absolutely. Same to you. :cool:
     
  17. wishtheend

    wishtheend clip the apex

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    For me it was definitely hitting way too hot. I was using a stock Epi les paul with it's cheap passive pickups (not hot at all), and I get my peaks hitting around -6db or so. When I put on TSE X50 and do the input listen, it still adds a bit more gain to hit the amp for good saturation (6-8db). I guess I wasn't expecting Termionik to handle so hot. IAfter using input trim -6db, I got it more where other sims seem to sit at the default at noon sound. I stock presets I agree have too much gain. In the end, definitely could get some good sounds out of it - but the out of the box, plug in and pull up a preset didn't come across favorable initially.
     
  18. Christian WUFU

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    Here's my first test with Thermionik:


    I ended up purchasing the Modern ClassicsII bundle but there was no difference in sound when compared to the demo. So I'm not sure what issues Prime was having
     
    Kazrog likes this.
  19. [Prime]

    [Prime] Member

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    Agreed.

    Beyond that the GUI reminds me of this....

    248717_1700119793599175_925445438324232604_n.jpg
     
  20. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    It depends on whether you downloaded the multiformat demo installer, or an installer from after the plugin formats were separated a few days later. The factory presets were revised at that point to accommodate a wider variety of setups. It really comes down to the fact that there are so many variables with different home recording setups, and that it wasn't until I got some good data from the crowd that the presets coalesced to where they are now in terms of the input gain calibration.
     

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