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Thermionik Amp Modeler Plugin by Kazrog LLC

Discussion in 'Backline' started by superfreak, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. Erik Monsonis

    Erik Monsonis Member

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    Not a big difference at the beginning but if you listen to one for some time and then you switch to the other you can clearly hear the difference.

    A = Amp
    B = Sim

    Not that I would be able to discern between them in a mix context, though :D

    EDIT: I actually think B would sit on a mix better than A.
     
  2. NecroDM

    NecroDM br00taliz0r

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    I'd say:

    A) plugin
    B) real amp

    But i could be wrong, as both sound very similar.
    Nice job :)
     
  3. 46 and 2

    46 and 2 New Metal Member

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    I think that the first one is the real amp. I was listening to a comparison of the X50(old version) and a real 5150, and the real 5150 had that analog squishiness that the first example here has. Of course I'd be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong.
     
  4. HOFX

    HOFX Member

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    I will have a go at this when I get home this afternoon.

    But my initial 2c, and please don't take this as moaning, but rather trying to be constructive and drive improvement: modelling pre-amps and power amps to match hardware has been done before, notably the Lecto tests of a real amp and Lecto running through the same real cab / mic set up were so close that a few minor tweaks of the amp EQ wouldn't fix.

    Where the lowest fruit for next leap in innovation lies is in the cab emulation. You've taken that a step forward with the dynamics knob on Recabinet, but there's more to go. In high gain metal, where it's really the bite / bark of the guitar (2k + Hz) that's accentuated, this isn't really a problem. But when you go to a more full, earthy tone, there's a static low-mid drone when you pan the guitars hard L-R, that really sucks the stereo spread of the guitars.

    When you hear tracks of real amped guitars (or even Kemper), it sounds there is two independent guitar tracks and there's no common low-mid drone dragging them into the centre of the stereo field.

    Over the next week I'm trying to organise a Kemper reamp, a Nebula reamp and my own IR based mix to give an example of what I'm talking about (I can't afford a proper re-amp, but feel free to volunteer anyone), and hopefully spark a discussion about the difference. If there is no difference, then I will admit I'm full of sh*t and go back to my corner.
     
  5. DocSauerkraut

    DocSauerkraut Member

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    Regarding mic suggestions:
    I would highly appreciate a Groove Tubes Velo-8.
     
  6. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    OK, it looks like most everyone who's interested has had a chance to vote. Here are the results:

    A = Thermionik
    B = 5150 II

    So, a majority of you guys were fooled, which is awesome! That said, the algorithm is still being tweaked; I feel that the model actually has too smooth and "tubey" of an attack compared to the real thing. Also, in this A/B test, a bit of the high end was being sheared off in the virtual power amp section, an issue I've fixed subsequently.
     
  7. Fbarre

    Fbarre Member

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    I thought that B sounded better and I hoped for it to be the plugin. If you can get the high end to be accurate it would be very, very close already. However the most important aspect to me are the dynamics. If you listen to B the tone sounds a bit more dynamic with the notes jumping out a bit more where A sounds like it's compressed or not as alive. Also at around 0:33 I find that in sample B the chords have a bit more note separation, more dynamics and also appear to sound/feel wider. Would you be able to get the dynamic, note separation and wideness accurate in your plugin? It would be beyond amazing!
     
  8. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    As I said, I'm still tweaking the model. I've already made some pretty substantial improvements since I recorded this A/B test. Also working on ENGL Savage 120 at the moment as well...
     
  9. Christian WUFU

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  10. Frak

    Frak Member

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    I think my pants just got wet.
     
  11. Fbarre

    Fbarre Member

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    That's amazing! Please keep us posted about your progress!
     
  12. Fbarre

    Fbarre Member

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    I agree with the others. As for the amp models I would really like to see some different or newer amp designs too. I'm pretty sure you will already include the usual amps like the dual/triple rec and 5150/6505. Here are my suggestions:

    Blackstar Series One 1046L6, Diezel VH4, Fryette Sig X, Laney Ironheart IRT120H, Orange TH100, Randall RD100H and Randall Thrasher/Satan
     
  13. phisk

    phisk Member

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    Bogner Uberschall :)
     
  14. Boneman

    Boneman Semi-noob

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    Larry Dino939 :oops:
     
  15. Jan___

    Jan___ Member

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    Very cool!

    Also if you're still looking for ideas a Diezel might be nice, I haven's seen one in a plugin yet, I think.
     
  16. spitfirees20

    spitfirees20 New Metal Member

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    Kazrog,


    Any chance you'll have any stoner metal amp sims? It seems as though EVERY SINGLE amp simulator out there completely ignores this segment of the market, and refuses to do Sunn / Orange / Green / Matamp / etc. types of amps, which makes it damn near impossible to get something like a Mastodon / Red Fang / Sleep / Earthless / whatever tone out of an amp sim. Don't know if I'm describing it so well, so here's an example:

     
    #96 spitfirees20, Feb 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015
  17. Ashgarth

    Ashgarth Jordi Vaquero

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    +1!!
    That would be amazing!
     
  18. Studdy

    Studdy Member

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    Not really metal but I agree some more "grunge" oriented amps would be nice. (Alice in chains, pearl jam,etc.) it seems the super high gain stuff is easier to achieve with amps sims than it is to get moderate distorted tones that sound solid.
     
  19. guy in latvia

    guy in latvia Member

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    I would like to hear a realistic sounding Mesa Recto model in there, since in the ampsim world I haven't found that's even close enough to be called a model. And a big +1 on the grunge/stoner type amps, the mid gain stuff is usually pretty terrible and undynamic sounding.
    I feel that the 2 biggest problems with amp sims is a serious lack of high mid/treble and presence, they always sound dark and low mid focused and no matter what I do with EQ, I just cant add enough high end into the sound. I would be extremely impressed if your unit managed to get this right!

    In terms of new recabinet models, please add something with K-100 speakers like a mode 4 cab, and more bass cabs please! :)

    Thanks for making awesome products and actually listening to our opinions, you the man! ;)
     
  20. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    Cool suggestions, thanks guys! Every effort will be made to get as many of these as possible into Thermionik, if not immediately, at some point down the road. Thanks!
     

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