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Told What to Think

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Norsemaiden, Sep 23, 2006.

  1. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

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    Religions are not the result of divine revelation, but are ideologies that are cynically concocted by people who wish to excercise control over the thoughts and actions of a group.

    Most people need to be told what to think. They need values to be set for them. Only conscious nihilists can have freedom from this kind of manipulation - or would even want to. Even secular societies have dogmatic belief systems that are imposed upon the crowd to make them conform to the wishes of the ruling elite.

    Do you agree that most people should be told what to think? And do they (you?) accept it because it makes life easier to not have to figure things out, or is it because they know they couldn't figure it out if they even tried? Or some other reason?
     
  2. fah-q

    fah-q Brusque

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    The majority of people I know that need to be instructed constantly are that way as a product of learned behavior. Ironically, these same people who need to have everything mapped out for them are the same ones that persistantly question the outcome of every event in their life. As if it is someone else's fault that they did something absolutely ignorant.

    God made man, man made religion. I am a god fearing man but, I often wonder where the line is between belief and free will.
     
  3. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

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    It seems that in order to have a truly rebellious and independent spirit one needs a combination of primitive wildness and high intelligence.

    Domestication results in human skull shapes becoming rounder, and where you find rounder skull shapes you find more docile, conformist mentalities. The Alpine sub-race is a sub-set of domesticated humanity. Here are some observations on their attitudes:

    .

    The East Baltic type is also

    http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap3.htm

    These can only be generalisations, but I do think that this kind of character has more to do with genes than with experience.
     
  4. My Man Mahmoud

    My Man Mahmoud New Metal Member

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    I tend to think it's a much better idea to help teach people how to think than ordering them what to think. What benefits do we really reap in encouraging the herd instinct?

    On the other hand, if we encourage and nuture thought, people might look at white-history.com and think, "Wow, a bunch of underconfident losers desperately trying to justify their place in the cosmos with pseudo-scientific gibberish." And I suppose we wouldn't want that.
     
  5. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

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    What you have to realise is that Alpines are White, as is the East Baltic sub-race so it is a bit of self-criticism rather than supremacism. There is good and bad in every sub-race.
    For example Nordics

    One can't teach most people how to think. If one doesn't like the way they are thinking all one can do is to give them a new set of beliefs to adopt. They won't easily adopt them without peer pressure or some other kind of compulsion however.

    Domesticated peoples have rounder skulls (this is a recent evolutionary development - primitive peoples always had long skulls) and domesticated people have less wild and more docile conformity to their behaviour. That much is fact - whether or not the above specifications about sub-races are nonsense or not. (And I think there is a lot of truth in these stereotyped descriptions myself).
     
  6. My Man Mahmoud

    My Man Mahmoud New Metal Member

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    That's a load of horseshit. White-history.com is aimed at Anglo-American fucktards with an exaggerated (and probably erroneous) sense of their own nordic 'heritage.' It's silly ego-stroking garbage for people who need the phony authority of the internet to feel good about themselves.

    Sure you can. No one is saying everyone has to be (or gets to be) a leader, but the basic tools that allow a person to think about and live their lives in a disciplined fashion CAN be taught, and often were in the past (indeed, in most pre-Christian societies, this was the basis of religious instruction, rather than the inculcation of dogma).

    Thanks for bringing things around to the cutting edge science of phrenology. Have I told you about my theory that we can cure all illness by bleeding out bad humours with leeches?
     
  7. Anvil

    Anvil Brain Bubbled

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    In today's society, with mass-production, in order to keep everything running smoothly, there has been an increase in media and government agendas to "brainwash" people into what to think and do. If people were to all of a sudden be given the chance to think for themselves, do you think mass-production would stand? Would people sit around thinking, "Why am I going to work everyday?" "Why should I?" Its all relevent.

    I'm not saying that its the way it should be working, but its too late to give up the brainwashing. Society as we know it would crumble. Our only instinct left is survival. The only way to survive within a community and the current society, is to conform. People are left with very little choice, even if they can think on their own.

    How many of you go to work 5 days a week, pay your bills, own a house, watch TV, etc.? Even the intellegent people are stuck conforming, even if only a little.
     
  8. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    Well, I think some religions do indeed have a root in divine revelation.

    I'm convinced most people never consider this notion, and are happy not to.
     
  9. OldScratch

    OldScratch Member

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    "Now you can apply yourself voluntarily to reading and learning, but you cannot really apply yourself to thinking: thinking has to be kindled, as a fire is by a draught, and kept going by some kind of interest in its object..."
    "Fundamentally it is only our own basic thoughts that possess truth and life, for only these do we really understand through and through."
    - Schopenhauer "on thinking for yourself"


    We are clearly not 'fans' of deep or individual thought today - whether we would fully understand it as Schopenhauer noted, or not. The ever consenting, herd mentality is very confortable for most, whether derived primarily from religion or more secular ideologies. It is interesting that often the very problems, issues or short-comings of mankind critically discussed here, are the very qualities it seems many in the mainstream admire most today(conformity, hyper-industriousness, radical egalitarianism, materialism, etc.).
    Society today seems to simply revel in the fact that by and large they don't HAVE TO think. Survival in this day and age is a given for the most part. This level of domestication is viewed negatively by few, for the obvious reasons. But alas, the "softer" (rouder headed??) we grow, the further from true greatness we seem to drift(and certainly the further from overcoming our all-too-human status). But the widespread sensation(illusion?) of security, creature comforts and domestic bliss will likely remain intact...at least for as long as it can do so.
     
  10. judas69

    judas69 god is in the radio

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you're arguing for individuals to have their own mind on matters, and yet appear to be condeming them for thoughts in conflict with your own (as they relate to belief). In otherwords, it appears you're drawing a line in the sand as to a persons intelligence and allusions to individual worth or value depending solely upon which side of the line they fall on in relation to your own.

    I happen to think diversity in belief is more than fine so long as individual igorance doesn't get anyone injured.
     
  11. Sacred Profane

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    http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap3.htm Biggest load of crap I've ever read. Being 'nordic' and all. -_- And btw, there's a reason why phrenology was dismissed totally - It was found it's totally faulty.

    I don't agree most people SHOULD be told what to think. I do believe, however, that some people are more inclined to accepting what they are told than others. And personally I do not see any problem in this.
    I don't think it has anything to do with not having to figure things out for oneself.
    I would believe this is just a typical 'the herd is so mindless and stupid' philosophy.
    I seriously doubt that just because people work 9-5 five days a week they don't think or they have conformed and are therefore (basically) mindless. Everyone has goals and dreams and has experiences that have tought them things and everyone learns, but as mentioned not everyone can become a leader. Some people HAVE to belong to the mass, but that does not make them less important or less intelliegent. *rant rant*

    The kind of society we have now is not based on forcing conformity on people, it's based on convenience. Mass production exists because most of us want it this way, and for this to work, everyone needs to do their part.
    And let's not forget, it's because mass production people have the time to actually sit here and write 'philosophy' and not be out trying to farm your own land 24/7.

    Anyway, I might have derailed a bit - lol
     
  12. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

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    Independently minded people don't have to be leaders. Why would they have to be? One can do what someone else (a leader) advises while retaining the ability to think logically about it rather than just following mindlessly.

    It is just an observable fact, that most people are content to be led and don't like to question things too much. This means some of us being frustrated that people don't see things that seem obviously wrong in society, and instead carry on aggravating the problem and waiting for the leaders to sort things out, or people around them to change first.

    Phenology is about studying bumps on the head. It is discredited. But what is not discredited is that different biological groups do have different head or body types.

    The hunter gatherer shape is/was long limbed and narrow headed. This type makes the best athletes in most sports.

    Agriculture/farming caused bodies to change towards a less lanky and more round headed type. They are not less intelligent, and are stabler in their personalities. For example, Alpines and Slavs but also Asians have rounder heads. Both Nordics and African blacks have long crania. Intelligent blacks with this feature are likely to have rebellious tendencies, as are whites with hunter-gatherer features. It's to do with how wild they are.

    Hunter-gatherer body types used to be 100% of the population, but are now in the minority and do not fit in with society, often finding themselves criminalised.
     
  13. The Bringer

    The Bringer Member

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    I think that when people are told what to think and everything they are told is the absolute truth critical thinking begins to severely degrade. I also believe that not everyone has to be told what what to do and how to behave but there are a lot of people who do. Lots of people follow Christian beliefs and "rules" because they just don't know any different. For generations and generations their family have followed the "rules" and that is just the way it is.

    I believe the "conforming" part definitely has to do with the convenience of modern life. To life the most convenient life people work. The only problem is that work has become such a huge part of peoples lives that it is now all most people do. What exactly do they work for? If I don't work a 9-5 job eventually I will die of old age. If someone works 9-5 or hell, even longer as today goes, that person will still die of old age. Nothing more as been gained then the "lazy, drag on society" that is me. Maybe a few worldly possessions but in the entire spectrum that is of very little importance.
     
  14. Omnis_Sathanas

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    If most people realized that they are only going to work in order to generate economic wealth, but do not have a religious faith in material consumption, then life would become meaningless unless they really enjoy their job considering the means and ends would lose all symbolic value and merely become "stuff" to be chased after. Even 2500 years ago Aristotle wrote that money was not to be valued for its own sake (NE IV 1120b15-20).

    In our contemporary society religion in the traditional sense is no longer necessary because people are told to value money religiously; its acquisition gives social status and becomes a means to all other material ends. So I guess in terms of being told what to do, today's people only need to know that "money=good".
     
  15. The Bringer

    The Bringer Member

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    Or "money=god". I was always worried about how I was going to make my money. I was taught only to worship the dollar and no matter what I am doing I should be generating money. I don't see how that is at all natural OR healthy for a human being. All values are put aside just to gain some extra money. Long hours, late nights, weekends even holidays. The last Christmas I spent in Canada was spent working. I worked until 10:30 at night Christmas Eve and I worked Christmas Day and Boxing Day. There was no family time therefore no time to reflect on family values. How is that good for anyone? Even if I was religious there would have been no gain from that experience.
     
  16. fah-q

    fah-q Brusque

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  17. Sacred Profane

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    I don't think people fail to question things, everyone I know question things constantly, not because we are a clique of 'bright people' but because it's the way people are. That does not mean they act on it though, mainly because they see no alternatives to how things are now.

    As for the white bla bla stuff. As a person of nordic decent I'm meant to be a certain way simply because of my skull and not because of how I was raised or the experiences I've had in life?

    "Why is any exhibition of white pride so maligned and attacked? "
    Because white pride is usually the same as scorning every other race. Not always, but usually.
     
  18. My Man Mahmoud

    My Man Mahmoud New Metal Member

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    That site isn't about white pride, it's about redneck underconfidence.
     
  19. Anti-Racism

    Anti-Racism New Metal Member

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    Thank God for that, because when they try to "think" they just screw it up.
     
  20. fah-q

    fah-q Brusque

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    Admittadly, I have never been to that site. I will take a look. Thx!
     

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