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Transgender

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by waif, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. waif

    waif Member

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    And what's wrong with pussy? :p
    But seriously, why shouldn't everyone be a pussy? We don't need to hunt our meat anymore. Survival of the fittest no longer really applies to humans, at least in the developed world.

    Such as?
     
  2. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    If it makes you proud

    Its all right there in the paragraph you qouted all you have to do is read it and let it sink in.
     
  3. Möglich

    Möglich Brahman

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    Thanks for the support. Much appreciated. I think it will work out. As for my dress, I've done very little physically that would indicate my gender, and that includes dress. I am still very uncomfortable with myself internally, and am making small steps to express myself externally so as to acclimate myself. I am out (outside) of my family with whoever inquires. Although I can't see an instance when an employer or co-worker would have any reason to ask, I would be honest with them-- willing to accept flak as a consequence. I see teachers who get fired for sexual preference, for example, as martyrs for their cause and would be willing to do the same. As I have turned down employment opportunities when I've been asked rudely to remove my facial piercings, I don't intend on working someplace that compromises who I am.

    At the moment, I maintain shaved legs, occasionally wear a dress or high heels among friends (and am not ashamed to do so in public) and try very hard to look for unisex clothes. Once I find a nice purse, I will carry that around most everywhere I go-- I usually have or wish I had many things with me, mainly for "what if" situations, --I'd like to always have band-aids and such with me.
    It's strange for me as an avid student of Buddhism, realizing the emptiness of gender-roles that have been constructed culturally.. I realize that both my physical self and the clothes shrouded over it mean nothing and, in a sense, the clothes don't make the man/woman, yet that message doesn't sink deep enough all the time.
     
  4. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    Interesting reflections.

    To be fair this is hardly a topic I've considered. I teach gender studies with relation to classical history, so I'm aware of the general thoughts and themes that arise.

    For my thoughts: As a child I found trans-gender society remarkably weird, as an adult I realise the falsity, to an extent, of established (and even changing gender) roles, and as such, intellectually at least, consider there to be no expected correlation in external appearance with internal psyche.

    One of my colleagues (born a physical male) decided to align his appearance with his feelings about 8 years ago and live as a woman. After about 4 years he gave this up, assumed a more "normal" male appearance, re-used his birth name and sexually considers himself genderless.

    If anything he (I usually say he, simply because of how he looks now, but one of the reasons we get on so well is that I call him she, it, chap, loser, nut, sexy lady and a whole host of honestly rather silly things)has taught me, and this is hardly very philosophical, that people are who they are and that's it. I hardly muse on the topic any more than that.
     
  5. waif

    waif Member

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    Interesting. When you say "facial piercings" are we talking about earrings? I've noticed those have become common among straight men as well recently. If you mean tongue, lip, cheek piercings or a nose ring or whatever, a lot of employers just don't want to higher edgy looking employees...

    As far as a purse goes, I'm a straight guy and I frequently wish I had one - it's just useful to have things with you. I'd be willing to settle for the more manly utility belt.

    The good news for unisex clothing is that it's common for men to wear women's jeans, even straight guys. So that may not be a problem for you much longer.

    Seems like you could make it sound philosophical (and some people have) by adding a ton of empty bullshit to that but when you boil it down that's the truth.
     
  6. Möglich

    Möglich Brahman

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    I do have my cartilage and snatch pierced, but was referring to an eyebrow and bottom lip (labret) piercing. Before I even got to the interview, this summer, I was asked if I would be "take all those... ugly things out of [my] face" in a belligerent manner. I politely said, "No, I would prefer to not compromise myself like that, thank you though." and left. At the same time, had I been asked politely, I would have gladly obliged. My piercings, as my gender, doesn't define who I am, but just a piece telling a little bit about me.

    If only utility belts were fashionable these days....

    I'm happy to hear that unisex and genderbender styles are becoming fashionable, as well. A hospital in Sweden designed unisex underwear so as to cut costs of production in half-- I am fairly interested in this as well.


    As for your last comment--- A lot of people spend way too long realize that they already have the answer and that things are just as they are. Like the Ch'an saying goes, if you can't find the truth where you are, where else do you expect to find it? Most people look way past the truth of the way things are, which is sitting right on your lap.


    I went looking on facebook for a picture of the piercings, so here goes, for the heck of it. The first is a just a headshot, the second is me in a fabulous dress. :D
    http://photos-140.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v191/165/58/637655140/n637655140_1084186_5646.jpg
    http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v241/6/19/1565370168/n1565370168_30101932_6096.jpg
     
  7. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Im not into piercings but that can be expected of most of my generation while we are around. Quite a few guys were getting one of their ears pierced since the 70's,my cousin and one of my best friends did. At that time one ear meant gay and the other one was what guys that wanted one would have done. Myself I believe I am special as I was born and shall remain, excludeing some accumulated scars which I proudly carry. I also have three nipples... TRUTH! #3 is very small but make no mistake... lol

    Girls jeans today..... I could do the puker, they discust me.... stretch jeans are pathetic. My now, ex has the goods, shes petite so maintained well over the years. She looked great in those things till they started sliding down, which takes all of about an hour, the waist cut is terrible then they get dumpy around the ass, I cant for the life of me see what anybody sees in them. We had great jeans and even back in the 70's when we had hip huggers they were far better. We actually went shopping in the boys section so she could get good fitting regular denims.

    being how it was brought up... lol
     
  8. forbidden fruit

    forbidden fruit ...is always best

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    Totally agree with you here.
    I'm who I am, you're who you are... multiply that by 6 billion & you have the human species.

    On a side note, my girlfriends grandfather (who died last year at the ripe old age of 87), was never told his grand-daughter (my girlfriends sister) was a lesbian.
    But you know what? He just knew... never bothered him in the slightest... he was ex-military & a champion boxer in his day & as tough as nails, but he recognised his grand-daughter's way of life without having it spoonfed to him, or jammed down his throat & he never batted an eyelid.
    He annoyed the shit out of me at times, (living upstairs in our rented house) but I always admired his (complete lack of) approach to his grand-daughter's sexual orientation.
    He just never thought about it... she was who she was, & that was more than good enough for him.
     
  9. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    Yep, I think the stereotype of conservative older people can be thrown out. My experience has taught me that the middling generation, in the 50s and 60s, are more intolerant of gay culture/gay people than the older generation.

    Two of my male cousins from the same family are gay, and while it bothers their parents, my grandmother does not give a hoot. She often invites them and their partners round for dinner.

    I'm especially interested if my observations count for anyone else, and if we can posit a reason why this may be? Was that generation exposed to something that the older one was not, or vice versa? Given that our constructions of recent history are often fabricated, it is possible that the solid nuclear family unit we're all supposed to believed actually existed has had a genuine affect on the generation that were supposedly brought up in it?

    Ramblings mostly, I'm afraid.
     
  10. waif

    waif Member

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    I see. I'm not surprised that the piercings were an issue, but that was definitely rude. Although in the future you might not want to wear those to an interview...
    However, those piercings are definitely gender neutral.

    Pics or it didn't happen. And I don't actually want to see your three nipples (why did you share that?) so basically I don't buy it.
    Anyhow, you old fogeys can cling to your ways, but when most young people have piercings, you'll have to start looking past it.

    Part of the point is that they slide down, tbh. Anyhow, the point is that clothing is becoming more and more gender neutral.

    My experience is that some old people are totally accepting and whatnot, and some are absolutely set in their ways. No one gets angry like an old person can, because they can have an unrivaled sense of self-rightousness.
     
  11. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    In responce to feeling that Grandparents are more open than Parents, this should be obvious and is nothing new nor generation oriented. One difference now however is as one person mentioned they were'nt force fed all this gayism. I mentioned it more than a few times on this topic and know that is something that aggrevates many of my generation and not just the gay topic, everything is so force fed these days, such drama. We've always known who was gay, its a dead give away, and are also willing to accept it without words. Its all the words and actions that are felt need be said today that gets aggrevating. Hell we had a lesbian social studies teacher, she lived with another woman, I mentioned others in our school. No words were ever said. Even many parents of children who think they are "in the closet" know but dont want it to be turned into some big dramatic issue.
     
  12. waif

    waif Member

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    Interesting quoting job there...
    I was joking. Anyhow, I have no third nipple, but am happy with no tats or piercings. It's a personal decision, however, and irrelevant.
    Enough about clothing and body mods.

    But old people can be particularly stubborn and self-rightious. Most are nice, though.

    Interesting defense of the closet there - "because it's easier for everyone else"
     
  13. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Yes it is. I was in the closet with many (3) of my live in girlfriends, it was easiest not to discuss it, just let it go and everyone could figure things out on their own. Its was easiest to just grow my hair long and not talk about that I had long hair. It was easiest to get a job and not talk about what reasons stood behind my choices. It was easiest to just live my life and not get up in peoples face about "look at me... Im living my life".

    And you are SO correct self-rightiousness and stubborness are traits only common in "old" people.... :rolleyes:

    something else I didnt mention, cloths and style are no more "unisex" today than they were in the 70's perhaps even the late 60's. There was perhaps the larger spred in the 90's when somewhere it was decided boys/men would wear baggy ass giant crotched pants and the girls remained or more recently went back to hiphuggers when in the 70's we all wore them.
     
  14. forbidden fruit

    forbidden fruit ...is always best

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    That's what I found curious about my girlfriends grandfather.... he was oh so stubborn & opinionated, & you just couldn't explain the simplest of concepts to him if he'd already made up his mind on the subject...
    I guess that's why her family decided to not tell him about my GF's sister, because they thought he'd explode trying to get his head around it.... but I could see, just through observation, that when the sister & her girlfriend would rock up to hang out... he totally understood.
    Me leaving a bucket unattended outside for 3 hours however was a mortal sin apparently... he wouldn't speak to me for days... HAWHAW!!!!
     
  15. forbidden fruit

    forbidden fruit ...is always best

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    I'd thought about this... & have no evidence to back this up.. but it could be due to generations born prior to, say, 1940, are now at an age where the majority could be aware that they do not know what passes for 'normal' these days, whereas those born between, say, 1940 - 1960 are now at an age where they feel they know what should be the norm, based on their upbringing, but are bombarded with freely available, & sometimes inescapable, information about topics that were taboo when they were growing up, and therefore are likely to resist it becoming the norm?
     
  16. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Know what should be the norm ?

    Resist what becoming the norm ?
     
  17. waif

    waif Member

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    Discuss what, exactly?
    I didn't say it was only in old people, I just said that it can be more intense in old people.

    Okay, this is true, but I think that said "baggy ass giant crotched pants" (AKA jeans that are too big) are gonna be going out of fashion relatively soon. Just a prediction.

    I know what you mean. :lol:
     
  18. forbidden fruit

    forbidden fruit ...is always best

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    For both....
    Things such as graphic violence, bad language, depictions of sex during prime time TV... the open celebration of gay & lesbian life such as Sydney's Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras... sex being talked about in public forums like it's the weather being discussed... etc etc...
     
  19. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Oh, you mean drama, who in their right mind would deny that drama is not the norm today
     
  20. waif

    waif Member

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    Err...talking about sex in public =/= drama, imo.
     

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