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Underheads?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by RedDog, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

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    [​IMG]

    I've seen this method a few times live. The fu-? Never tried this, what can I expect (because I'm going to try this)?
     
  2. jackbraglia

    jackbraglia Member

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    seems more just like a macguyver solution to a lack of mic stands. I've "accidentally" done this and it sounded like crap to me. the cymbals push the air differently from down there, and it just sounds odd, its hard to describe.
     
  3. bassguy

    bassguy Member

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    I don't think I've seen anyone use them in a studio situation (but there probably are some), it's done more in live sound because it keeps the stage from looking too crowded, lets you use less mic stands and I believe is a bit better at keeping spill out of the OH's. Try it, but I think jackbraglia is right, it sounds different to a normal cymbal sound
     
  4. Morgan C

    Morgan C MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯

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    Tried it, didn't like it.

    I think the new Slash album used a similar method on the drums (iirc, a mix of this and Recorderman), and those drums sound fucking awesome.
     
  5. nwright

    nwright Member

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    I've miked ride and hi hats from underneath and liked it a lot. A LOT less bleed from both the other overhead mics as well as the drum shells.
     
  6. KHE

    KHE Member

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    i also spot-miked a ride from undeneath due a weird drum-setup. worked surprisingly well!
    I`ll think i try this setup next time and see how it works... if i remember correctly, the drumkit from the gojira-drummer is miked similar live.
     
  7. JeffTD

    JeffTD Senhor Testiculo

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    This is specifically for live situations to save setup time and avoid stands being on-stage. Very common.
     
  8. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Member

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    Using "underheads" is something that's being used in live situations to minimize stage bleed. Basically so that guitar amps and bass amps don't bleed into the overheads. Some rides and hihats sound cool this way though.

    To me overheads are 80% of the overall drum tone... so I suggest you never do this in the studio since these "underheads" aren't picking up snare, toms or kick. And yes, overheads are essential to all of them.
     
  9. punkrockacademyfightsong

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    For live stuff I use underheads most of the time, mainly because it looks better and secondly because the isolation is better. Don't expect the same result as with overhead micing, since it's more spot micing. It does require a bit more drastic EQing in my experience but works fine.

    I've used it in the studio too, but only with plenty room mic in the mix, just using the underheads to bring out some more detail in the cymbals.
     
  10. ze kink

    ze kink THE BLACK WIZARDS

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    I do it live almost all the time these days, unless there's a lot of splashes etc. that are blocked by the toms and thus not possible to get into the underheads. I also prefer spot micing the ride from underneath in the studio.

    Eric Valentine uses underheads a lot, there's a good thread on Gearslutz about his technique. We tried it (though we used 414's instead, since there were no ribbons available) but the results weren't very good. Need to try it again though, it was more of a quick test.
     
  11. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    I've done it in the studio quite a bit. It's not a replacement for OH's but rather for spot micing.
     
  12. Jon Warren

    Jon Warren Member

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    I've read that cymbals project odd order harmonics upwads and even order harmonics to the sides. Maybe from underneath it emits an evil screaming baby monkey being mutilated sound of DOOM but I've never tried it. I mic'ed my drummers ride with a cheap pencil sdc from the side and he loved the sound of it. Has anyone ever done a positioning shootout on various cymbals/rides/chinas from top/bottom/sides?
     
  13. monstercometh

    monstercometh New Metal Member

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  14. jackbraglia

    jackbraglia Member

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    hahahah yes screaming baby monkeys being mutilated is EXACTLY what it sounds like from down there! lol no but seriously, what I experienced was when the cymbal is hit, it starts doing that 360 degree rotation (obviously not always, but most of the time the cymbal swings around like that). So the underside, if you can imagine it as like a speaker cone, while its swinging away from the mic it sounds quieter and when it swings back towards the mic, it sounds louder. Now of course you can flatten out those volume fluxuations with compression, but the tone of the cymbal still changes as well, and it is still quite noticeable. I didn't like the way it sounded, but of course it could still be used in some way I'm sure.

    but micing from the side does seem like a pretty cool idea. how did it sound? more shimmer-y maybe?
     
  15. jackbraglia

    jackbraglia Member

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  16. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

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    Ohhhh, I'd never heard about the odd/even harmonic theory, that is quite an interesting bit of information. Side-micing the cymbals is also a great idea to try out, I'd imagine you'd get a lot of shell tone in there with some odd phase character, wonder how it would work in a large room. You definitely woulda have to worry about standing waves, in that case.
     

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