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Discussion in 'General Metal Discussion' started by Kara-Shehr, Jan 6, 2011.
Do you realize that in your post you've offended BOTH types of metalheads (including yours, unless you're here to lose your time, that would be even more stupid and in this case get a cock in your ass, it's better for you no?). So the next time think twice before talking, and read my ONLY post in this thread.
I'm into this because I fucking love speed. I love playing fast. I love the intensity of just playing as fast as you physically can.
I considers thas day flag of Uni States nos only a flag of a Country, bus is an universal mèssag of freedom av democracy.
(Thank you sir. - To another person: his English is very good!)
This is pretty much what I was trying to get across. The thing is, I don't know of anyone who says "I listen to prog, so I'm the intellectual type" which he apparently has heard someone say before.
prog and tech metal is hardly ever complex, it's just generic metal covered in gloss and salad dressing. so actually, the latter group are fucking stupid because they got duped by a bunch of gimmicks.
anyway i do find this interesting even though this thread has been absolutely useless so far. i think it's impossible to answer if we're talking the whole of metal, because over the generations metal fanbases have altered considerably, and branched out into sub-genre communities which then deviate all the more. it's really difficult to ascribe a particular personality trait, or 'temperament', 'set of experiences', whatever, to a majority of metalheads, when there's so much deviation between the various sub-genres musically speaking. i mean, what does all this shit have in common? that's got to be the starting place for the discussion, and the answer is not very much above and beyond a certain amount of deviation from the norm. there's not a great deal of overlap between the laid back hedonism and machismo that characterises some 'old school' communities, with, say, the very self-serious, socially awkward, bookwormy black metal types you find all over the place these days. there's otherworldliness and the fantastical at one end, gritty reality at the other. speed, flowery melodies, aggression, introspection, i mean metal's pretty much touched on all bases at this point. there's all sorts of stereotypes for fans and you'll find that pretty much everyone on this board has borrowed from most of these without fitting snugly into any. the only thing is a dissatisfcation with the norm in the modern world.
i'd characterise my own musical tastes as being in search of an 'otherworldly' experience, anything that's far removed from the everyday. i have a total peter pan complex of sorts (i dunno, maybe we all do) and spend pretty much all the time longing for the days when the world still seemed full of mystery and surprise and novelty for me - these days i feel like i've assimilated almost everything and have become extremely jaded and apathetic, near-incapable of intense emotion or of much in the way of action either. although this is hardly anything new (stretches all the way back to hamlet and probly before i guess) in part this is a problem with our globalised culture as a whole esp. since tv and then the internet, where everyone is bombarded by an overload of information to the point where all innocence and wonder is lost, every feeling and mode of expression has been repeated so ritualistically for so long that it's lost its meaning, and nothing 'new' remains.
music (and movies, books etc) are the closest i get to removing this awareness and approaching the kind of pure experience i would have all the time as a child. the reason i became so obsessed with metal is i suppose because its conscious aim for the most part is to inhabit the world of dreams, fantasies, and the aspects of reality that everyday society shies from, and these are the only things that still hold some kind of allure for me. in turn i came to realise that a great deal of music outside of metal is pretty much in the same boat in trying to stave off this same 'jadedness' that i feel, it just tries different methods, some more successful than others - this is why i no longer align myself with metal particularly, just good music.
but still it's interesting trying to place metal in the history of art. you've got modernism's desperate, horrified reaction to this encroaching sense of apathy and meaninglessness etc (which became prominent around the time of nietszche's 'death of god' etc), and then postmodernism's acceptance of the loss and an attempt to embrace the self-awareness as best they could, using things like irony, pastiche, homage etc to recontextualise clichés instead of trying and failing to avoid them. of course neither of these things can ever really succeed, and metal reacts to this environment in pretty much exactly the same way as the romantics reacted to the enlightenment, paradoxically delving into all these mystical/romantic/ancient ideas and themes that society has long since debunked as naive or irrelevant, and yet also focusing heavily on the concerns that society is still unable to really face or come to terms with (death, sex, godlessness et al). there's a sort of implicit belief, certainly by the time of black metal's early '90s evolution anyway, that the first step to reviving 'what once was' (the meaningfulness that's so hard to come by now) is to come to terms with all the aspects of existence that society is set up to avoid, and rebuild from scratch with that new perspective. it's an idea that was really espoused systematically for the first time with heidegger, and i find it really intriguing although i've always suspected that it's doomed to failure and nietzsche would've shat all over it in a second if he'd read it.
To make things clear, yes I have seen such stated before; but I was referring to a certain attitude people carry with them that states those ideals without verbally saying it.
I agree with the vast majority of what you said, but the above quote continually bothers me; and perhaps it's the sole reason I pretty much exclusively listen to two broad styles of music. I also like the Heideggerian notion of taking a quasi-mystical approach to things that are often hastily dismissed as banal by most of adult society and the like, but I can't seem to enjoy anything that doesn't tackle this theme without metal's visceral potency or classical's "finesse".
I realize that I'm being outlandishly ambiguous, though I suspect it's merely a by-product of my own confusion. I'd like to find personal fulfillment in works outside of metal and classical, but it happens rarely. Even when it does, works that provide it like Kraftwerk's The Man Machine and Dead Can Dance's Within the Realm of a Dying Sun have such a profound impact on me due to the unrestrained manner in which they expound very simple notions with haunting implications (like most metal).
i don't think we're that far removed, p much all the music i love is haunting, intense, raw, ambiguous, mystical or some combination of those things, or that's how i perceive it anyway. but i guess i wouldn't have perceived those qualities in a lot of my fave non-metal stuff back when i just listened to metal. it sort of came in incremental steps for me. if i step too far outside my comfort zone then it's just not accessible to me - i need stepping stones - stuff that has enough similarities to what i already love. like, it wasn't that big of a stretch for me going from black metal to autechre to 'kid a', or from metal to the cure 'pornography' to joy division 'closer', etc.
maybe im just a hipster fag though
I suppose I see what you're saying, but at the same time the same thing applies to other sub-genres. People who listen to progressive and technical metal may see themselves as more intellectual, people who listen to thrash or death metal may see themselves as heavier, people who listen to black metal may see themselves as more extreme, and people who only listen to 90s and before or 80s and before may see themselves as purists.
Great post, no country. Actually, it's clearly the best thing that's been said so far in this thread. What you said describes pretty much exactly why I'm attracted to metal music. That's basically the thread that's been running through my fascination with this music over the years, whereas concerns with visceral heaviness, technicality, speed, and whatever other "surface" qualities might be associated with metal have proven to be very peripheral to what I really find interesting about this sort of music. For the same reasons I'm attracted to stuff like Dead Can Dance, Elend, Raison d'etre, Tangerine Dream, and a lot of classical as well.
Agreed, the prog / tech statement was simply one example of the many.
The main thing that draws me to metal is the energy it has when I listen to it.
@ no country
Good post, well said. I can relate alot.
I've always thought it strange that anyone halfway intelligent can become bored with or numb to the world around them. That's not an insult, either, as I can tell NoCountry is an intelligent guy. I can't relate to it, though. I am endlessly captivated not just by metal or music in general but by science, philosophy, psychology, etc and there is an endless (and that is an understatement) amount of material out there to dig into even as a casual observer much less an active student. Of course, I'm the type that can get lost for hours just walking through the woods and taking in the sights, sounds, smells... Hard to fathom losing that sense of wonder. It runs deeper within me now than ever, because I have a greater capacity to understand and appreciate it all as an adult than I did as a child.
And yes, Nietzsche would probably shit all over me as well. Fair enough.
sorry, i probably kinda tarred everyone with the same brush above - i realise i'm actually part of a minority. i do think that the kind of person i'm describing tends to gravitate towards the arts though (and perhaps metal in particular? i dunno), whereas people like yourself are often too busy actually living to obsessively get caught up in other people's lives and perspectives (via books etc). not saying that you have to be apathetic with your life to have a passion for this stuff, just that you're probably seeking something different from it than what i'm after. but that's cool.
in a nutshell my problem is i near-constantly crave *intense* emotions/experiences and whilst i appreciate simple pleasures to an extent they ultimately leave me unsatisfied. i think the main cause of this for me is how comfortable my life has been on the whole - it's instilled in me a grass-is-greener type longing for danger and adventure, an obsession with all the wilder stuff hidden in the shadows, criminals and assassins and madness and orgies and psychedelic drugs and thunderstorms and wars and the concept of 'death' and etcetc. dunno, maybe if you pass me and go even further up the spectrum you get to the kinds of nutjobs who wind up in max security prisons and mental hospitals, haha. what i do wonder is whether or not if i was actually involved in all this sorta stuff directly i would then start longing for calm and simplicity and comfort in my life.
Actually, I very much enjoy the arts, reading, seeing from other perspectives, etc. I just don't find that those experiences take anything away from the simple ones. I don't become bored with either. What bores me is the day-to-day monotony of going to work and taking care of the responsibilities of life, but I guess that is true for almost anyone.
Interesting theory. It's nice just to talk to someone who has taken the time to analyze himself to this extent. I don't think most people put that kind of thought into what makes them tick. In any case, I think we're probably closer together than what it first appeared. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job analyzing what you wrote in the first post. But I can relate. I have certainly done my share of seeking out intense experiences. Not so much these days now that I have kids and, *sigh* responsibilities. But I've been there and try to make it back when life allows.
and i actually have loads of 'simple pleasure' type hobbies such as chess, birdwatching, football, tennis, moth catching, piano, video games etc. i just struggle to settle for just this stuff if y'know what i mean.
I am not really one of the metalheads when I was in high school, but I used to be with them in school just because I think they are cool. When I experienced hanging out with them and we gate crash on one event it was totally awesome, I enjoyed being with them after that experienced I totally involved in metal music. I felt that someone can always relate to my emotions and I really feel comfortable.
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