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Discussion in 'Will of the Ancients' started by Tristram, Feb 8, 2007.
This should be hilarious, lol
Good Question .. i dont know ! old school norway bands i think ..
It's that good shit I listen to!
Black metal is a type of music that originated with really bad thrash bands. At least that's my opinion. they basically weren't as good as the other thrash bands, so they changed their weaknesses into strengths. Not being able to sing/yell/etc turned into a positive thing, as it sounded more "evil" or "underground". and people got into it. they used dark imagery to propel this new form of thrash.
eventually it was adopted by scandinavians, who took the thrashy roots of black metal from bands like venom, and added a classical edge to it. This created a new version of black metal, that had the same evil, dark, thrashy sound, with a more sophisticated classically written, ambient spin.
what is black metal now? it's music that people take far too seriously, to a hilarious extent. Militant black metal youths worshipping normal men that play in heavy metal bands, while telling everyone else what is or is not black metal. Not to say black metal is the only genre that is guilty of this, and that all black metal fans are like this. It's just become a very funny sub genre, very driven by ideology and image. Kinda like rap, and a lot of pop has this in common too. Trying to emulate your favourite bands, and be just like them. It's really quite interesting!
In the words of mr devin townsend, "music, it's just entertainment folks"
Metal that is black?
Black Metal Ist Kreig?
this is the most non heated black metal discussion ever. haha
hey i tried
Will of the Ancients are a fucking disgrace to black metal. They are clowns
Where on earth did you get the idea that the Scandinavians gave black metal a more "sophisticated classically written spin?" Do you mean "classically written" in the sense that it contained elements of classical music, or in the sense that it hearkened back an "older" sound? In either case, you're way off. Also, you're making a huge generalization with regards to contemporary black metal. I would argue that every music genre is very driven by ideology and image; that's how it becomes distinguished as a genre.
Weelll I listened to bands like Venom, and Hellhammer, and early Bathory (though he's scandinavian), and then I listened to bands like Emperor, Enslaved, etc etc, and i said to myself, wow this stuff is way more sophisticated, as far as musicmanship goes.
Very few genre's in the realm of metal take their idealogies as seriously as the black metal guys do. Most death metal bands are quite aware that all the blood, gore and guts is just a shtick that they do. It's fun. Thrash to me, seems mostly about kicking ass, and drinking. Power metal, well, does power metal have an ideology? It's mostly about things that don't exist, and triumph.
I think music defines itself, and distinguishes itself as music. You don't need to attach political views or any crap like that for your music to get distinguished. You just need to be a good band.
I actually agree with this. Venom was called Black Metal but they are actually a thrash band if you pay attention to the music. Immortal would be more of a thrash band if they didn't have the horrid vocals.
Obviously the level of musicianship became higher as the bands progressed, but innumerable contemporary black metal bands still play in a very raw, simplistic, and traditional manner. Also, you skipped a big chunk in the evolution of black metal and went from the thrash-derived, more raw, early black metal straight to more "sophisticated classically written" stuff like Emperor. You're completely omitting the heavier, more atmospheric music that came between then. It wasn't such a discrete transition. You're also forgetting the dirty, gritty stuff that is still being played now. You're making blind, overarching, completely fallacious statements about the state of black metal then and now.
Anyway, with respect to ideology, I still stand by my statement. Any music genre (and to a lesser degree, sub-genre) requires a particular image and ideology in order to establish and distinguish itself from the genres that surround it. Ideology does not necessarily have to mean something political or social, it can be as simple as having an ideology regarding how the music itself should sound. The reason certain instruments are used in certain sub-genres of metal and not others is because the ideology surrounding it dictates that it is acceptable. I think you should reexamine your understanding of that concept.
this is black metal!!
and of course all that grIm, krieg, tr00 and kvlt stuff too.
as mentioned before, i believe that the first black metal wave evolved out of the bands that added more "evil" sounds, imagry and feelings to their songs from the thrash metal. it was then taken a step further by the scandinavians and at this point, the whole lifestyle and ideology becamse as important as the music is. at this point, for the most part, the muscians also became more accomplished.
Well i did say eventually, not "right away...". So i think I was implying that there was a gap inbetween venom and emperor.
How can one guy, in one band, dictate what the entire genre should sound like? Or how can one band itself dictate what that genre sounds like. He can tell you what his band sounds like, but thats as far as he can go.
The reason certain instruments are used in certain sub genres of metal is not really an idealogical one. It is usually down to the bands place of origin, if it sounds good with the music, and if you can find a guy that can play that instrument. It's not about wheather it's "acceptable" or not. Who decides what's acceptable? I don't think there's a big council meeting of the elders of folk metal, who decree which instruments will be acceptable to use on future albums.
Musicians aren't all so black and white. I'm sure there's many of musicians that don't have a definate idea of what their music should sound like. And don't care if the all encompassing sub genre title that they have been subscribed to fits their personal ideology. They just play what they play and leave the labeling to other people. A lot of Black metal guys, for some reason, have hard ons for being "black metal!".
I think that black metal is more or less, the same as all other types of metal. Now before everyone jumps up and starts siesuring... obviously black metal and death metal and all those different genres have a distinct sound. But they're all really just Metal in the end. The main difference I see is that thrash and death metal and most (not all) other genres are based on either technical/ instrumental ability or driving RYTHMS. Black metal, on the other hand is based on FEELING. As long as it feels like black metal, it is. No matter how simple or technical or fast or slow. Thats what I think.
Black metal is one of the most underground, contraversial metal genres in the music scene right now. The music is based on numerous ideals and philosophies from paganism to satanism. Although black metal is shunned in away for its raw speed like riffs and intense screaming, the black metal image is what makes the genre unique. Although hidden from the mainstream, Black metal has alot of potential to experiment and change.
Although this "true" image of being a pure satanic spiked band marks the roots of black metal metal bands like gorgoroth; it condemned them into bring more about the image and ideals then the music. From this bands like agalloch focus more on the basics of true black metal; the ambience and atmospheric sound that ties to nature and grimness. This is why i listen to bands such as enslaved, agalloch and of course woods of ypres..