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What is death metal?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by infoterror, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. MasterOLightning

    MasterOLightning Optimator

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    I was. I don't think there's anything remotely thrashy about early Death. I have no idea how you came to mention Chuck and thrash in the same post.

    Maybe I shouldn't have gone as far as to say they're nothing like thrash (early death metal does share quite a bit with thrash), but the band is 100% death metal until they start to wander with ITP. It's obvious from the beginning that they've crossed the line into death metal.
     
  2. EphelDuath

    EphelDuath Hiljaisuudesta

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    well,then i have to admit that,i have vague feelings about Death =) Can not see any atmosphere but professionalism in them.
     
  3. Laeth MacLaurie

    Laeth MacLaurie New Metal Member

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    West African music doesn't have a significant tonal component, so how can modern rock be based on "West African" scales? The basic melodic and harmonic elements of the blues (and thus of rock music) were derived from the British folk tradition which predominated in the American South. The African contribution was an emphasis on syncopation. The blues represent an easily digestible hybrid form of popular music that takes a limited range of African rhythmic expression and combines it with a limited range of European melodic and harmonic expression to provide a formalized base for improvisation.
     
  4. LORD_RED_DRAGON

    LORD_RED_DRAGON New Metal Member

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    it is the people that listen to music for any reason(s) other than the music itself that riuns music for me

    how does anyone feel the intense need to analyze where a specific type of music "came from"???

    why the fucking hell does everyone seem to think that disscussions about music really truly deserve to be on the philosopher's forum instead of on the chat or pop culture forums???

    i really don't understand any of this fucking shit
    why can't music just be music???
     
  5. speed

    speed Member

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    LRD, what is this nonsense above? Perhaps if it was presented in a coherent fashion one would reply; but this is drivel man. I'm thinking about editing it: all but the last two paragraphs.
     
  6. speed

    speed Member

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    There, that is much better LRD.
     
  7. LORD_RED_DRAGON

    LORD_RED_DRAGON New Metal Member

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    i guess my main thing here was the large number how many seperate music threads keep popping up here, and that because this is a PHILOSOPHY forum, i was thinking that all music-related thoughts should all be appearing on one single "music thread"
     
  8. infoterror

    infoterror Member

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    I knew you'd ask:

    http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/future/
     
  9. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    Because ANUS as we know is the source of all immaculate knowledge :lol:
     
  10. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    :lol: How can slaves who hardly knew English at all, hated their masters and their oppression, decide to adopt their folk music? This is again, absurd. The only European influence on the early Blues and Jazz music was that of naming and quantizing notes, and tabulating it into written mediums. This and the providing of actual instrument standards such as the violin, the piano, etc, which were European inventions. Further influence is delayed until the 1950's and 60's when British music became extremely popular.

    If this is not the case, then explain how rock and metal of all forms did not develop until after this explosion? If metal is based on European folk music, why did it not develop before these others, and sooner? Why... because you're wrong.
     
  11. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    It was actually an ok article. It does make alot of the same assumptions about the orgins of rock, that you disagreed with before., but nonetheless it was quite interesting.
     
  12. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    Oh I do find such theories interesting, but I cannot say I am convinced in the least.

    Afterall history is but a guessing game, with each interpretation distorted by the lens of the observer. This is crucially obvious in the Muslims thread, which I find interesting but disagree with many people's opinions.
     
  13. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    If an unbias account of history exists, I am yet to come across it.
     
  14. Laeth MacLaurie

    Laeth MacLaurie New Metal Member

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    The blues developed from earlier hybrid forms in the latter part of the 19th century, long, long after the servile population had become English-speaking. Even in the early 19th century, when the earliest forms of the slave music in America were developing, the servile population was predominately native to the US and largely English speaking. By the point at which new musical forms began to emerge, most slaves were had been in America for 2-4 generations.

    Since when has that ever stopped artistic transmission? The history of artistic interchange between oppressed and oppressor is long and well-documented.

    Horseshit, the blues were played very early on by white as well as black musicians, and heavily influenced by white folk music before it. Jazz likewise (see: Lost Chords: White Musicians and Their Contribution to Jazz, 1915-1945)

    Nevermind that even the most extreme tonal developments in jazz were anticipated by European composers like Stravinsky etc. Or using Western instruments to play in non-Western tonal systems is impossible (which is why you can't, say, use a guitar to play microtonal music in the Chinese tradition). The fact that the blues was always played on Western instruments is proof in and of itself of the Western origins of its tonal system (as if the common usage of pentatonic scales in British folk music and early American songs wasn't proof enough).

    You haven't been paying attention. The blues itself developed out of hybridized form of simplified European tonal systems and simplified African rhythmic patterns. As I said earlier, this provided a formalized base for improvisation. The progressions, structures and basic rhythmic patterns are locked in place, allowing for easy improvisation, both vocally and for solo instruments.

    Jazz and rock both represent attempts to take the basic system of the blues and broaden its expressive possibilities, jazz by incorporating more complex rhythms and the tonal experimentation pioneered by Modernist classical music, and rock by incorporating elements of jazz (white crooner styles and black r&b) and country music. Metal grew out of the impulse to break free of the blues/jazz/rock tradition of popular music entirely (as did ambient music, which emerged at approximately the same time), and it did so by moving away from recursive structures based on verse/chorus and towards a narrative format emphasizing the evolutionary iteration of themes (in essence, returning to the structural precepts of classical music) and toward and emphasis on the melodic rather than rhythmic possibilities of music. Obviously, this wasn't an overnight process, but it culminated in the extreme metal of the early 1990s, by far metal's most creatively important era.
     
  15. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    I still see your "history" as a construction of your NS beliefs. You're simply twisting it to suit what you try to propagate.
     
  16. Blaphbee

    Blaphbee Member

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    Strawman argument, unproveable, and an ad hominem to boot.

    Hows about you go back and address his points, as he so kindly did for your own "argument"? It's easy to just dismiss something as being of a convenient ideological stance, but when you're trying to argue about historical accuracy, you sound moronic. I don't say this to offend you, but I'm sure that you'll take it as such anyhow, since you seem predisposed to not believe a word of any evidence given that contradicts your own position, which you claim you have researched, yet have failed thus far to provide any backing evidence in support of it.

    I've already labelled you a shittalker on these forums in previous discussions; most likely, you'll retort to this with some trite dismissal of me as a "troll", and think that you've outwitted your opposition yet again, while the main question still remains unanswered. So that I don't have to label you as a shittalker yet again for your typical and pathetic evasions when pressed to provide sources for your arguments,

    PROVIDE SOURCES FOR WHY YOU ARE ARGUING FOR YOUR POSITION, OR BE LABELLED A SHITTALKER.

    Why is this so hard for you? If you've researched it, as you claim, it shouldn't be hard to provide your sources.
     
  17. ProjectedBlack

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    Because taking credit away from Blacks where full credit is not due is relative to NS.
     
  18. Laeth MacLaurie

    Laeth MacLaurie New Metal Member

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    Then provide an alternate history with some basis in reality. A continued assertion that a tonal system is rooted entirely in a non-tonal musical tradition is a logical non-starter.
     
  19. MURAI

    MURAI -

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    True black metal is obviously harder to market than death metal for its connection to National Socialist/White supremacist idealogies since in this age people praise "freedom" but not the freedom to criticize other religion and lifestyles. Then, they call it a "hate crime". But, as we all know weak bands like Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir are marketable to the mainstream by selling the whole black metal image as something sleak and gothy. It's easier to sell image than something tied more to idealogy which requires thought and depth.

    ANUS, argues death metal is based on the idealogy of looking through life putting importance in logic and reflecting on death which is passed on from Slayer. Also, they argue it has lost its original intention with bands like Cannibal Corpse coming up like I say are more based on horror movie shock value than anything. And some more mainstream bands took the heavy, angry image of death metal.
     
  20. infoterror

    infoterror Member

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    My beliefs consist of many things, of which nationalism is one part. Why do you zero in on that and not look at the whole, unless you're a bigot who cannot disprove what I say?
     

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