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Discussion in 'Dark Tranquillity' started by solefald, Oct 25, 2002.
don't flatter yourselves, hon.
this place isn't _that_ great
I really fucking hope that the reason wasn't because of mattias impersonating bjorn.....because then this would all be my fault as I was the one who first joked/claimed about mattias really being bjorn in the first place
my two cents about the criticism issue.
as i mentioned on another board, i'm afraid either one allows ppl to say what they mean or one doesn't. there is no "freedom to express one's own opinion but for two or three concepts" no matter how trivial they might be. if a band opens up a place for fans to discuss, they ought to be ready to take more or less whatever comes their way, otherwise they could just run the place themselves and post words of praise only.
the gravity and vulgarity of the opinions expressed is a poor justification to remove said freedom. in short, should a band discover their fanbase is made up of irreverent brats (i'm not saying this is in flames' case) they have to put up with this somehow. all the bands who just take offense and refuse to face the truth are nothing but poor losers.
so no matter what in flames forum members have done on their board, i don't respect in flames' decision if the criticism theory is true.
@wildfyr: sounds "great" enough for you to post there, tho.
rahvin: i go where the wind takes me.
it must have been some post that took down the In Flames forum. the IF guys have done rash things like this before though, like vowing never to post on their own forums and shit like that. who knows why this time? i didn't get to check up on the board until about mid-morning yesterday, when I noticed the link on the index page was missing, so i didn't get to see if there was anything that would have caused such an abrupt and seemingly final decision. an explanation would be a good idea.
Oh well, the whole thing is very childish on their side, and sure doesn't make me appreciate IF any more than i did (which wasn't that much anyway..), quite the contrary i'd say
och precis när jag höll på att få min In Flames biljett(Sthlm2nov) såld..
Jag hade 2 köpare, The Smiling Jesters polare & sen någon mer. Kommer dock inte ihåg vad han heter, och jag kan ju inte kolla upp det längre. Men om du (eller nån annan) vill köpa biljetten och läser det här. Maila! firstname.lastname@example.org
Man...this is disgusting. I've never flamed In Flames (pun not intended) before. I've always enjoyed all of their albums and I really like RtR, I don't care about what people were saying about it, it is good. But this is complete shit. Why would they do this to people like me? By this I mean the people who have been supportive of them this whole time and always been into their music? I mean...its obvisouly been wrecked by people who criticise In Flames and like to joke around...but this is fuckin stupid as well. Those other people have the right to criticise and joke around as they see fit as long as they are not being overly offensive to other people. And people who have always been faithful to In Flames like me suffer even more than those who criticsised them. If anyone is to blame this it is NOT the fans but In Flames. They must have some major overly-sensitive syndrome or some shit. Bastards. I like their music but I don't like them.
...and still not a single official word from the band.
they r on tour i dont think well get an answer so fast
I have an Scandinavian Metal community. I still need many moderators (all the moderators will get 3 CDs loaded with mp3s of their own choise - choose from this database: http://www.stiggie.com/music.php )
It is just started, many new functions will appear eventually.
The address is:
There is already one moderator for the In Flames' board, but he hasn't done anything yet. I'm willing to add another moderator for that board......
Well, I see that you In Flames fans already have started an un-official board, but maybe someone will participate at my site as well....The portal rocks!!
I think the band were not wholly justified, HOWEVER it sounds to me from everything that has been said here that the service THEY provided to the supposed "fans" was being abused.. no offence rahvin but this comment sticks out:
if a band opens up a place for fans to discuss, they ought to be ready to take more or less whatever comes their way
So, what you're saying is that when the band provides a place for their fans to talk (something, incidentally, that they are NOT obliged to do) it's too much to ask that they behave with a degree of respect and civility? I'm sorry but I think that is preposterous. I repeat, the band are under no obligation whatsoever to provide that community, but they did so and it was abused, so the band pulled the plug. I don't understand what all the whining is about... If there are characters that create trouble, report them and they'll get banned, as primary users of the community it is mainly down to you to police it and make sure it's used as a platform for reasonably expressed opinions and not childish behaviour.
You'll find that most services, if abused, will be withdrawn. When you sign up for these forums there is a set of rule which you agree to adhere to by signing on. If you break the rules expect to have your service taken away, if the rules are repeatedly broken I would expect that the service would be withdrawn completely. No one should have to expect childish impersonations or insults on a service they provide to you all for free.
If this is indeed the reason it was taken down, yeah, the complete removal is a bit rash, but then I guess it's just tough luck and in the future maybe the people who caused this will think twice.
Ill take this one:
A WARNING, several warnings, followed by a public statement is what they should have done.
Yea users shouldnt abuse the services indeed, but you are the band, you are supposed to be the bigger persons. More important, you are supposed to respect your goddamn fans and their complains ( whenever they are legitimate ( wich they are ) or not ) not insult them like this.
Not that many people would jump on inflames but this is not the first time inflames insults their fans, they are just dumbass rockstars who threat their fans like shit, if you dont believe me tell somebody else to remind you of the statement in wich they called half they fanbase close minded idiots and virtually told them to fuck off.
I did say that I think that this is a rash decision and I agree, there should have been a warning, at least....
....but in all that does not excuse infantile behaviour. The key thing is LEGITIMATE complaints, not abuse, not impersonations, LEGITIMATE complaints expressed in a proper manner. The reason why this DT board works is not because of Big Brother and threats, it works because the people who come here apply self-censorship and act like adults. Does being the bigger party mean you have to suffer insults and have people impersonate you? Maybe you're all forgetting, the people in the band In Flames are not some unfeeling entity. No one deserves that kind of treatment and there is NO justification for it.
Sometimes I'm just at a loss for words, yes they acted rashly in taking the board down (for whatever reason), but I wish everyone would stop acting like wounded animals and pretending innocence, you all have a responsibility and in whatever respect some people neglected that, maybe you should save some of your disgust for them. You can blame the band all you like, but if the reason that the board was taken was because of offensive behaviour/abuse of the service then ultimately the fault lies at the door of those who found it impossible to maintain any control of their childish urges and posted whatever comments on there in the first place.
I don't know who you are to say that we (in flames board members) were treating the band like shit or whatever.
In fact, in the last while most of the board members have said nothing but good stuff about reroute to remain.
can you give me an example of 'infantile behaviour' that does not include mattias of the night?
actually, yes. or rather, they can ask for that. they can wish for that and they can work for that, but when things start turning for the worst it's way too easy to say "egh, sorry, we thought you could behave according to the rules of our definition of a balanced, mature individual. now we think you're just childish spoiled metalheads so we take our board out as if nothing happened".
if in flames thought they could not stand whatever might have come their way they shouldn't have opened that place from the start. accepting to hear ppl's opinions is rarely subjected to conditions, such as "i hear what you have to say only if it's not that different from how i feel". or if there's something you really really don't want to hear you should at least specify it first.
as for rules, that's what moderators are for. did they write out the rules for all to see? did someone break said rules? then all you have to do is have your mods remove the posts that go against the rules. it's pretty simple, perfectly legitimate and hardly punishing for those who did not break any rule.
so, unless there are other reasons which i might respect, the case seems to boil down to:
a. they were unable to enforce the rules they had set.
b. they didn't specify some rules but expected ppl to act accordingly anyway.
i don't think they've been very respectful in either case. it was of course their right to remove the board even for no reason at all, but that's reason enough not tu sue them, not reason enough to think they've done anything better than what was formally licit.
I posted on there up until around "The Tokyo Showdown" came out, after that it became such an arduous task to find something interesting, and at that time I remember it had degenerated a great deal from the previous years, I gave up. There was a time when I gave up before that (Probably around Clayman) when I made infrequent returns to find it a base of insults and general tedium.
You'll take note that I have so far been very keen in pointing out that this may not be the reason it has been closed and this may not be the way it is. This is "in the case", but I know that impersonation is rarely, if ever, tolerated on message boards.
My first post on the matter was a more general outlook on the situation of message boards in general and unfortunately second time round I've used ill-chosen words that make it sound that I am asserting there was so much infantile behvaiour and made it more specific to the situation. Sorry about that!
I know the majority of posters were there for a fun time and don't fuck around, I also know of Mattias of the Night (I remember him very well actually) and personally I would have banned him ages ago.
Iced Earth's official site had a messageboard up until 1999 I believe, when they took it down for a whole year. The reason they did so was because the band felt it was a waste of time having posts that either kissed their asses very bad, or critisized the band to no end. The fan response was huge, so I think in 2001, they put the board back up, where it's been up for a while. Very few of the band checks it, at all, and the moderator deletes a lot of posts, but it's still not a bad thing.
The In Flames board was a lot better to post at. You had a few people here and there coming on "In Flames sucks! They are not TROO Black Metal!!" etc. etc. But for the most part, it was a positive board.
I think what has happened might have been the same as the Iced Earth forum, but the easy solution would be to moderate the board a lot closer, delete posts that the band might not like (I mean posts like the mattias is bjorn thing, even though I thought it was pretty funny, and NOT critism posts, that's lame as hell), and just promote a good community.
_IF_ In Flames closed the board because they thought it went another direction then the one "they wanted" they are just elitist arseholes. There are many such creatures though, not something new and uncommon.
I hope that is not the case. I doubt it, but I hope it.
-phyros (I know I didn´t add anything not allready said )
damn what happen here? I just wanted to ask if someone knows something about the dissapearing of the UM-IFboard and nobody knows
If I had know that the board was gone I would have tried to ask the band about it on thursday,when I was on the gig in nuremberg.
damn that very bad and I have no ideas why they deletet it.
as yomeone metioned the swedish metal board is deleted to,I have to say that the dimensionzero board is still active(but dont know for how long)
I posted there something for fredrik,lets hope the board will be back soon
I dont know if he told the band(as they are still on tour)about his plans,but If arent such bad guys in things treating their fans like this
From experience, In Flames is pretty cool about their fans. They talked to me for about 2 hours last time just because..., even though they were dead tired. I don't think it's because they're elitests, but maybe for some other reason I can't imagine. Maybe some fan came up to them and asked Bjorn if he really was mattias