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Wondering....what is DT's stance on file sharing?

Discussion in 'Dark Tranquillity' started by The Antihero, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. The Antihero

    The Antihero Ninja Evasion Specialist

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    If it was really such a black and white issue, as you claim, then I doubt anybody would ever talk about it.

    We hear people arguing over file sharing all the time. But I don't hear anybody arguing about stealing shoes at the mall.

    So you can't equate the two and throw it all under some one-size-fits-all definition of "stealing".
     
  2. Taliesin

    Taliesin Immaturity Aside

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    I think of it in quite the same way. I own a big part of my originally illegal mp3's as cd's now, most of them only because of said mp3's.
    Besides, if a band cant inspire me to buy their album after I downloaded their music, it's their loss.. they'll just have to make better music next time ;)
     
  3. Salamurhaaja

    Salamurhaaja Member

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    File Sharing = what you do on BitTorrent etc.
    Piracy = when you sell copyrighted material to others.

    Just thought I'd make it clear that I am all for file sharing but not piracy.
     
  4. marduk1507

    marduk1507 Member

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    Theres also the slogan "copying kills music", which is totally absurd. How can you kill something by multiplying and sharing it? But the labels are just like hypocritical people: theyd rather invent a nice-sounding lie and haze all the talk with it instead of simply saying "copying pisses us off, dont fucking do it!"
     
  5. Matse

    Matse Customized individuum

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    Downloading mp3s is piracy imo as soon as you reduce the money you put into music because of downloading music. If you stop paying for music you hurt the music industry (including the bands). If you download mp3s, but still buy as many CDs as you would without downloading it doesn't hurt anyone and thus is fine. At least that is what I think.
     
  6. QRV

    QRV historyphobic

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    Read my signature.
     
  7. Jolty

    Jolty Monochromatic Stains

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    I would've never started listening to Turisas, Psycroptic, Melechesh and so many others if it were not for downloading, but I would also still have the best job I've ever had at a music store if it were not for downloading (and Wal-Mart). Downloading itself isn't evil, it is people who are. In a perfect world, people would download CDs to preview them, and then buy them if they like them. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world and such things do not work. I've made a point to eventually buy everything that I've downloaded and liked (unless I only like one or two tracks), and to delete everything that I've downloaded and disliked, but obviously not everyone understands or cares how important record sales are.

    PS: I have a feeling that our "Fiction" is Mikael's "Snakes & Arrows". ;)
     
  8. ishkur

    ishkur Bloody android from Hell

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    good point in fact i cant find haven anywhere here....and i cant find a lot of music i like....and a lot of music i like are way too expensive
    but dt's albums are kind of the cheapest here so im glad i can buy :)
    they are like 16-17 dlls
    but other discs are 20 or above.... way too much for my pocket if i like to buy all my fav discs
     
  9. Siren

    Siren Active Member

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    Here cds cost about 18.5 euros, might cost more if they're new or special editions. I only found Fiction the day it came out. Since then i have tried to buy a copy on 3 different occasions, and i had no luck. Same thing with some other smaller bands whose cds i want to get, with the difference that you can never find those.
     
  10. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    18.5 euros? As badly as my USD is getting it's ass kicked right now, that price is absurd. You know, now that they can beam music to the other side of the planet for almost nothing, that price is criminal.

    I support piracy for two reasons. First, as stated above, price. As production costs drop across the board, the prices aren't. Faced with price fixing and content monopolies, piracy is a form of consumer advocacy.

    Second, I believe in (and practice) conscientious piracy: As the movie and music industries started selling shit content, advertised with good samples (movie trailers, singles), they stopped producing large bodies of good work. Further, they have failed to make it possible to even preview things which are not mainstream (like death metal). Therefore, I believe in the 100% preview. You, as a consumer, get to preview and evaluate a work in full before deciding if you'd like to spend money on it.

    There is, of course, the leech who pirates what he would pay for and simply never buys it, since there's no point. That guy should really remember that his money is, in the end, a vote. When you pirate something like X-men 3, you don't give it the dignity of a dollar, and now you know better. When you see something awesome, buy it and send the message that the studio should make more like it.
     
  11. Siren

    Siren Active Member

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    With postage etc the price for a cd usually ends up being about the same. Of course with a big order things would be better, but i don't usually buy much. And then there's the matter of buying cds so there appear to be sales and there can be more gigs, and i don't think they count internet sales in that.
    I'm sorry if i'm not making sense, when i'm tired my english turns bad.
     
  12. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    Actually, in my country most people speak awful English when they're awake. ;-)
     
  13. Meanspark

    Meanspark Member

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    This is my opinion only and not the band's opinion...

    There two copyright terms : 1-owning the rights to sell of the item (to sell CDs and t-shirts) 2-owning a copy of the item (rights of posession), MP3s are illegals according to the second term.

    I have no respect for people that copy music, its killing the whole music system but also my job. I KNOW record label make a lot of money but signed bands need record labels to get promoted adequatly. This music system stands on strong basis and a LOT of people work around the industry (music store, delivery truck, airplanes, manager, music intrument seller) in short, its like a giant tree who fights to survive.

    Anyone that copy music use weak arguments, I dont believe in these abstract shit because it will not pay your rent.

    It's been a while that I bought a CD, no money=no CD
     
  14. DisplayofCharacter

    DisplayofCharacter Are You Scared Enough?

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    This isn't true any more. With the internet, an artist can release their music directly and make money. They can use that money to get an agent, an agent can handle touring and advertisements. Its true, it won't be as pervasive as if they had a multi-million dollar company behind them, but all deals are on their terms. This also is not the current model, but I believe its the model of the future. Technology enables a lot.

    Its artistry, so the artists deserve the money. Not the middle-man.
     
  15. rahvin

    rahvin keeper of the flame

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    Yes. The middle-man system is what ultimately prevents the customers from rewarding bands for recording good albums of music they actually like. Century Media has at least five In Flames clones signed as of 2007: I don't think they have the right to complain if their sales are poor, because I know I'd rather listen to something else if I had the chance. Labels can survive to provide studios, organize tours and sell merchandise, but the buyers alone should be entitled to tell how much a certain intellectual property is really worth.
     
  16. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    Meanspark,
    I checked your MySpace page and I'm slightly confused about what you do. Do you do design work, or do you publish?

    More people are making music than ever before. Even bands who release music for free online still have album covers. If you design CD covers, the market is larger than ever. Once you work has been commissioned, you've made your money. Unless of course the people who do album art receive royalties, which was never my understanding of the process.

    If you print and sell merchandise, your market is simply changing. If I don't buy your CD, I'm going to spend my musical dollar on special edition discs, t-shirts, concerts, and DVDs. Piracy doesn't take money out of the economy, or even necessarily out of a market. It just moves it to other items. Restricting sharing is simply a means of creating artificial scarcity, which is not sustainable. Selling real scarcity. Sell the tangible goods that complement the thousands of new artists being discovered by this new process.

    I don't feel that that's a weak argument, but I would be glad to hear your opinion.
     
  17. Siren

    Siren Active Member

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    If copying is bad, then do you think that i should own two copies of the same cd if i want to have it in my pc and in my car at the same time? Should i have to buy every cd i want to preview? In that case, who is going to pay my rent?

    If i have to pay 19 euros just to preview a cd and i'm not rich, then i will stop listening to music. Imo that's what might kill music. People not listening to it. :saint:
    People not having the choice to listen to a lot of music = people who can't compare bands = people who listen to whatever is shoved down their throats by labels = people who listen to crap music = good music dies. (perhaps being in control of what will be sold is another issue for the labels?)

    Maybe you should start buying cds and in that way support your job and the dying music industry, it's a circle after all, and i don't see why it has to be my money in it and not yours.
     
  18. Matse

    Matse Customized individuum

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    I think this argument here is pretty pointless since about everyone here still buys plenty of CDs in a frame their income allows. The problem are those that have stopped buying CDs and do not buy any merchandise and therefore DO pull out money from the music industry. Even if bands sold their music the way DoC described they wouldn't earn much if everyone was downloading it illegally for free.
    That definitely is a problem although I think as not nearly as big as it is made by the media since most of those who cared about music before mp3s came out and bought music back then still care about the music and the artist and still buy CDs. Those who didn't care and maybe only listened to radio or bought very few CDs are downloading loads of mp3s nowadays but since they never put money in the industry it doesn't hurt it that they still don't even if they are illegally copying songs.
     
  19. Siren

    Siren Active Member

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    As it was stated by others before, i do think the problem lies mostly with the pop music industry. Either way, i think you nailed it: people who don't buy today, didn't buy before either; they mostly relied on radio and tv to listen to their favourite songs.
     
  20. Narmoth

    Narmoth Dreamslayer

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    But you are still listening, or wathching what you download, don't you?
    I feel dirty jsut for readin gyour post.

    Anyway, here's ...... of how I aquired my music:

    Downloaded the entire disography of:
    Iron Maiden
    Dark Tranquillity
    Blind Guardian (almost)
    Opeth

    Downloaded several albums of:
    Hammerfall
    In Flames
    Iced Earth
    Rhapsody (of Fire)
    Nevermore

    Own the entire current discography of because I liked songs I downloaded:
    Iron Maiden
    Dark Tranquillity
    Blind Guardian
    Opeth
    Hammerfall
    Nevermore
    Angra
    Grave Digger
    In Flames
    Iced Earth
    Rhapsody (of Fire)

    Bands I have bought from directly, as they haven't any big company behind them:
    Pendragon (UK, own label)
    Souljourners (US, unsigned, distribution deal)
    Dreamtone (Turkey, own label)
    Black Atom (UK, minor label or distribution deal)

    All except Pendragon I found on myspace.
    So, is my music downloading damaging the artists?
     

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