dcowboys311
Member
I'm not sure I'd call changing your facebook profile pic for a day 'protesting', hehe.
Heaven and Hell Records joins SOPA blackout
- Thread starter J. Golden
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I'm not sure I'd call changing your facebook profile pic for a day 'protesting', hehe.
DuchessOfDork
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It's a completely different beast. I understand the plight of musicians trying to make a living because in this day and age, unless you already have a ton of money backing you, it's virtually impossible to make a professional recording worthy of being purchased by enough people to make up for the cost of recording. Basically, you lose more money than you make on the product. Add to it the fact that people will share your product without buying it, and yes, it's totally frustrating.
But I understand the risks, because it's not realistic to go into music with the purpose of making a living. It's sad but true, because some of the best musicians in the world are not the people we know by name. They're at home, working 9-5 jobs, and most of them can't afford to make professional recordings that might get heard by people.
Honestly, I just think people should go into music for the love of music, and not the desire to see money come out of it. You'll be a lot less stressed, that way.
And your music will probably be better, too. But of course, we all gotta follow our dreams. It's sad that money should be such an important element to those dreams.
dcowboys311
Member
It's a completely different and relatively NEW beast. People were willing to pay for recorded music because it was a novelty. That novelty has now worn off. Folks are no longer willing to pay for it in its current form (being CDs).
My favorite argument is when anti-piracy people bust out the CD SALES ARE DROPPING articles but never seem to mention the numerous articles showing that vinyl, digital albums, and digital single sales are rising...
Those who make money off of their music will be those backed by money, like always. Music for business's sake.
Niche genres like metal and punk will continue to see very little money, like always. Music for art's sake.
Just because someone has an interest and desire to record music does not mean that they are financially able or that they should blame everyone else for their own financial difficulties (not pointing fingers at anyone specific). I would love to skydive and drive Lambos as hobbies. It is not within my financial plan so I do not do it. Self control.
My favorite argument is when anti-piracy people bust out the CD SALES ARE DROPPING articles but never seem to mention the numerous articles showing that vinyl, digital albums, and digital single sales are rising...
Those who make money off of their music will be those backed by money, like always. Music for business's sake.
Niche genres like metal and punk will continue to see very little money, like always. Music for art's sake.
Just because someone has an interest and desire to record music does not mean that they are financially able or that they should blame everyone else for their own financial difficulties (not pointing fingers at anyone specific). I would love to skydive and drive Lambos as hobbies. It is not within my financial plan so I do not do it. Self control.
If all theft of music ended tomorrow, which musicians would see increased income? Would any see less income? Would there be a shift in time spent listening to music and thus would people move to other avenues of entertainment?
It probably wouldn't change much for me. The biggest change is that I'd likely mostly listen to bands who make their music easily available. Perhaps I'd subscribe more to underground music sites/reviews to find out about the less well distributed/advertised/available music.
It probably wouldn't change much for me. The biggest change is that I'd likely mostly listen to bands who make their music easily available. Perhaps I'd subscribe more to underground music sites/reviews to find out about the less well distributed/advertised/available music.
nailz
Member
I wasn't implying his band only. I was talking about media in general. Anyone who's downloading this stuff for free isn't likely to be buying it in the first place in a legal format.
DuchessOfDork
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I don't know about that, just because I came from the Napster generation. I actually used Napster to discover new music and bought ALL the albums I downloaded because I thought it was cool to own the CDs.
I understand that I'm in the minority, though.
Yeah every downloader says they use it to sample a band before they buy it. I'm sure some do but most of the time we know as well as the person claiming that that it is total bullshit.
I can help but to think back to when us old folk bought albums going by the album cover; how would have Napster kids handled that?
dcowboys311
Member
Do you have any statistics on this?
I know plenty of people who download and never buy. My roommates are two examples of this. In fact we got into an argument about this very subject last night.
Most people I know who are 'music fans' -- that is, constantly going to shows, finding new bands, posting on forums, etc -- buy most of the music THEY LIKE after downloading. There are exceptions, but the majority do this. Obviously this can't really be applied to every music fan everywhere.
A lot of times when I read posts like this, people seem to forget what the intended effect of sampling is. You decide if you like it or if you don't. Believe it or not, there are lots of times where people don't like a band or album! Why would you buy it? I'm not saying that's what you think, but it's what a lot of people seem to imply with similar posts.
PS some people still buy records based on album covers! Found out about Cultes des Ghoules recently because of the cover for Spectres Over Transylvania. Best black metal release of 2011 and I'd have never picked it up if it didn't have the great cover!
Certainly it is a guess but I would bet every disc I own that I'm correct. Seriously in these modern times when everything is easily accessible, people for entitled, every commodity is disposable, etc you really would think that must people are honest when they say they illegally download a track or album to sample and if they like it they go but it? Seems a little naive to me. And why would they have to download an album to "sample it" hell everything is pretty much out there and easily visible if effort is put into looking for it.
No what it really is some people won't admit to it so when confronted they simply say "yeah but I then go a buy the album". They were put on the spot and that was the best justification they could come up with at the moment.
So using the sampling excuse is pretty lame.
dcowboys311
Member
This was just released on the RealClear Politics site. Nice read: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/01/24/copyright_debate_misses_big_picture_112884.html
Justin G
Member
I have a hard time with the "sampling" argument too. Bands put enough of their material on their websites/myspace/facebook/youtube that if you want to know what they sound like, you're able to find out without any trouble. If sampling is the goal, there's no reason at all to download an album.
DuchessOfDork
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I bought an Iced Earth album from Best Buy based on it's cover. XD GO ME!
That's if you know who they are. Back in the day of Napster, people shared stuff with one another. One day, some guy who noticed I was downloading a lot of X Japan referred me to Malice Mizer. I downloaded EVERYTHING and since I loved it so hard, I bought every album I could find.
But see, I had no idea who Malice Mizer was until someone mentioned them through Napster.
dcowboys311
Member
And that's fine if you sit in front of a computer for all your music listening. There are plenty of folks without that time who listen to music in the car, at work, at the gym, etc.
That method may have been enough in years past. In 2012, sampling is sampling. This is the new standard.
And, there are lots of bands who DON'T put that stuff out, at least for the types of music I'm into. I'm sure it's the same for other genres too.
Justin G
Member
So now you'd hear about them on Facebook or here or a million other sites and go check them out on their terms.
dcowboys311
Member
In the age of unlimited information, you don't really need someone's permission to hear about their band. Everything makes it everywhere.
And why would you send someone to youtube for their sampling purposes? Someone who wants to steal is going to steal and it is incredibly easy to rip songs from youtube. Someone who wants to sample is going to buy the good stuff whether he/she heard it on youtube or heard it from a blog download.
Regardless this has gone off topic from the original point of the topic (through plenty of my own fault) and I still have incredible respect for H&H for participating.
And why would you send someone to youtube for their sampling purposes? Someone who wants to steal is going to steal and it is incredibly easy to rip songs from youtube. Someone who wants to sample is going to buy the good stuff whether he/she heard it on youtube or heard it from a blog download.
Regardless this has gone off topic from the original point of the topic (through plenty of my own fault) and I still have incredible respect for H&H for participating.
DuchessOfDork
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Yeah, maybe? Or someone will pass me a CD they burned, like how we used to share cassettes in the 80's. Something about listening to music in your car or your own CD player just feels better. I get the whole "on their terms" thing, but people share, regardless. It's a social thing.
Justin G
Member
I guess I'm missing something then. I get the social component here on this forum - demented and sad, but social (bonus Breakfast Club quote) - and can watch video clips of new bands or find more on their sites. If I like what I hear, I can buy the album and put it in my car, CD player, whatever. Downloading an entire album doesn't seem like a vital part of that equation. It does seem to reflect a sense of entitlement. Just because you can acquire an album with the click of a mouse, doesn't make it right.
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