Drum editing

[Ericlingus]

Hey guys. Sorry I know, another editing post but this time I have a question about editing drums. Whether it's slip editing or quantizing with audio warp( I use cubase) or whatever. When you fix the timing issues on say the kick for example, do you also do the kick bleed in the overheads? Wouldn't that mess things up if you only did the kick or the snare and not the overheads when the kick or snare hit?

 

[mstone564]

Group all the drum tracks together so when you edit one piece of the kit, everything else follows. Edit mostly kick and shells (in most cases, unless the drummer is absolutely terrible) and cymbals where needed.

The kick/snr/toms will look a little behind in the overhead/room tracks but only cause its suppose to.

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

This is reaper but maybe it can help you. http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/561958-reaper-slip-editing-tutorial.html

 

[Ericlingus]

well the problem with quantizing using the audio warp is that you create warp tabs first then quantize. I don't see how I can do that together. Anyone else quantize using cubase using the audio warp feature? Slip editing I you of course can edit all at once but I don't know how you could do it the other way.

 

[Ericlingus]

okay after some research you can't really do it in cubase at least in sx3. I think cubase 6 has the ability the multi track edit the drums rather than individually time warping each drum part which doesn't really work. I did find a workaround though in an SOS article entitled "cubeat detective". Anyone using cubase 6 here? What do you do for drum editing?

 

[Plankis]

 

[Ericlingus]

with the slip editing I still am unsure where exactly to slice the transient. I know it's trial and error but there most be some sort of tutorial or something on it. In the tutorials the guy just slices so fast. Is it usually that fast when slip editing? Anyone have any more info on it?(I know I asked this in another thread. But this applies to this thread as well).

 

[Jordon]

FWIW, I've noticed that straight up cut-slip-fade-cut-slip-fade style editing still sounds the best. I've yet to hear a convincing "audio warp" or "elastic time/audio" edit that sounds good to me.

But I'm a hack, so fuckit.

 

[Ericlingus]

thanks for the replies guys. I've been trying that cubeat detective thing that was posted on SOS. Lasse did a tutorial on it as well. So far it seems cool. I've been having a little trouble with the crossfades though. It takes me a while to set the crossfades right without killing the transients. A bit time consuming but i'm getting the hang of it.

We need a thread about editing. I would love to hear how others around here edit and how long it takes them, etc. Editing is all new to me. I've neglected it until now. Before I only did basic editing like copy pasting parts and simple slices and stuff. I can't wait to buy cubase 6 and try the new editing features.

 

[IronApe]

I usually edit a drum track (say, 4 mins) in about an hour with the slip&slide method. But that means a metal track with lots of double bass drum and lots of fast beats, and editing them to grid. I think you could edit an average rock track in way less than that.
I don't like using time warps or beat detection, I think manual editing gets you the best results and once you get the hang of it it's quite fast and easy.
I usually slice a little before the transients, with the auto fade on. That video Plankis posted is exactly how you should do it...

 

[Ericlingus]

thank you. I've been practicing slip editing. I'm getting better at it. I've been using the "cubeat detective" way as well. Guitars are hard for me though. Do you slip edit your guitars as well? If so, do you find it harder than drums?

 

[IronApe]

I tend not to edit guitars, maybe just if there are audible "mismatches" between two takes, but I rather try and get it good while tracking...
There was a thread some time ago with a snapshot of a guy who would edit guitars like crazy, aligning every single note... it was crazy!!!

 

[006]

Warping/time stretch/Elastic Audio all create artifacts and mess with phase last I checked. Yes, slip editing is as fast as I did it in the video, actually faster when it's on purpose for a real project. As for where to cut, if it's late, make your cut on the left of the grid where you want the hit to be, slip the hit (and all of the other tracks at the same time) left until it's on the very right of the grid line, so that the left edge of the hit's waveform is touching the grid line on the right side of it. If it's early, cut right before the hit, slip everything over to the very right of the grid line the same way. Do this 100% as close to the grid as possible for ultra-tight, do it right on the grid line or a little early or late on it to make it sound more loose and natural. As I describe in the video, turn on auto-fades so that it always adds crossfades automatically when you cut. You will not see them when this is turned on, but they are there.

Guitars are a little harder than drums, but in my experience bass is the most difficult because the transients are even harder to detect sometimes. It all becomes easier the more you do it, though.

 

[Ericlingus]

thanks! that's exactly the type of advice I was looking for on slip editing. I cant wait to practice more later today when I get home from work. How long did it take you to get the hang of slip editing and do you slip edit guitar and bass as well as drums or do you just do drums?

 

[006]

I slip edit everything, drums/bass/guitar/vocals/anything else that needs editing. It doesn't take long, I'd say once I was like halfway through the first song I edited after learning how to do it I had it down pretty well. You'll keep coming across new things that you will have to figure out creative ways to fix every now and then but after a while you don't even need to hear it, you will be able to recognize what needs to be fixed just by looking at it and that's really what helps to make it a faster process.

 

[ze kink]

I was going to make this thread today, funny. I have a couple of questions:

1) When using Beat Detective (my tool of choice for this project), what do you do with hits that are too far apart, and you get a ghost hit or a cymbal artefact in the end of the first hit? I tried TCE'ing it, but it sounded like shit. Copy paste a similar hit somewhere on the song? Use xform with EA on the single hit?

2) Do you use collection mode? What does it really even do?

3) What's your crossfade shape when editing drums? I'm using equal power crossfades, but sometimes feel as if linear would sound better.

4) Do you have a workflow with interloping comps, when doing BD in 8 bar segments or by song parts, or do you just leave them to BD to figure out?

5) How the fuck do you keep yourself entertained while editing? Movies/series playing on the other screen? Listening to music? I feel I'm going to die from braindeath in about 15 minutes or so

 

[006]

1) When using Beat Detective (my tool of choice for this project), what do you do with hits that are too far apart, and you get a ghost hit or a cymbal artefact in the end of the first hit? I tried TCE'ing it, but it sounded like shit. Copy paste a similar hit somewhere on the song? Use xform with EA on the single hit?

2) Do you use collection mode? What does it really even do?

3) What's your crossfade shape when editing drums? I'm using equal power crossfades, but sometimes feel as if linear would sound better.

4) Do you have a workflow with interloping comps, when doing BD in 8 bar segments or by song parts, or do you just leave them to BD to figure out?

5) How the fuck do you keep yourself entertained while editing? Movies/series playing on the other screen? Listening to music? I feel I'm going to die from braindeath in about 15 minutes or so

1, 2 and 4: No idea, I haven't used PT/BD in many years and I've never felt it is really of any advantage over slip editing anyway. I would remotely consider using PT again if they ever implemented slip editing capabilities like Cubase or Reaper have.

3: I have always used equal power with no issue.

5: Yes, movies/tv series or just music jamming works for me. It's a drawn-out, tedious and boring as all hell process but it must be done, unfortunately.

 

[Ericlingus]

I usually don't mind boring and tedious so i'm good on that. That's my life anyway

 

[Ericlingus]

hey 006, if you make another cubase slip edit tutorial that goes really into detail especially on slicing the audio and where exactly to slip to on guitars, i'll give you 20 bucks! You know you want to.

 

[Ericlingus]

okay i'm currently working on slip editing and was wondering if you guys zoom in when you slip the audio. It of course gets it more exact but it takes longer. What do you do?