Fake double track guitar test

[henryjarv]

I created a dual tone in PodFarm, that actually sounds almost like a double tracked guitar. I have tried this many times before, but it never didn't sound good...And I really don't understand why it now does.

Ok, it's not 100% like 2 guitars, but I almost can't hear any difference.

Here's a short mix test: https://soundcloud.com/henryjarv/test/s-6RJyf

0s--->9s 2 guitars
10s---> 1 guitar
18s---> 2 guitar
26s---> 1 guitar

 

[Random3]

I'll listen to this when I get home.

From what you said I don't see how that can work. The thing with double tracking is it sounds like two performances because... well... it IS two performances. The only real way to turn a single recording into two performances is to copy it and offset it very slightly from the original to give the illusion of two guitars, but even that doesn't sound like actual double tracking in my experience.

 

[henryjarv]

I'll listen to this when I get home.

From what you said I don't see how that can work. The thing with double tracking is it sounds like two performances because... well... it IS two performances. The only real way to turn a single recording into two performances is to copy it and offset it very slightly from the original to give the illusion of two guitars, but even that doesn't sound like actual double tracking in my experience.

I forgot to say, that I used a delay pedal with 20ms delay.
So I have this dual tone in PodFarm, 2 different tones, and delay added to other side

And you are right, it can never sound 100% like 2 real guitars, because it's only 1 performance. But it still sounds really good in my opinion, and can be used to record something really difficult that is almost impossible to record 2 times.

 

[Random3]

I forgot to say, that I used a delay pedal with 20ms delay.
So I have this dual tone in PodFarm, 2 different tones, and delay added to other side

And you are right, it can never sound 100% like 2 real guitars, because it's only 1 performance. But it still sounds really good in my opinion, and can be used to record something really difficult that is almost impossible to record 2 times.

Right ok that makes more sense. I will still give it a listen later to see, and if it sounds good then at the very least you have saved yourself some tracking time

 

[ashgallows]

sounds pretty good actually.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

and can be used to record something really difficult that is almost impossible to record 2 times.

 

[JeffTD]

^^I think his mom walks by at 1:34

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

^^I think his mom walks by at 1:34

oh god, just when I thought that video couldn't get any better. you're totally right hahah.

 

[Trevoire520]

Thats actually pretty convincing man, well done! You still hear the whole thing pulling to the one side because of the other being delayed but it's pretty good. I think having the different tone on each side helps and having something like Waves ADT on the delayed side to randomize it a bit instead of there being a fixed delay would work will with this. Certainly good enough to use for quick demo's though I wouldn't do it for a final mix.

 

[henryjarv]

Thats actually pretty convincing man, well done! You still hear the whole thing pulling to the one side because of the other being delayed but it's pretty good. I think having the different tone on each side helps and having something like Waves ADT on the delayed side to randomize it a bit instead of there being a fixed delay would work will with this. Certainly good enough to use for quick demo's though I wouldn't do it for a final mix.

Thanks! That Waves ADT looks good, but expensive too...And that is something that is used when mixing. But this delay "trick" is great because I can play with this almost double tracked sound in real time with only PodFarm.
And like you said, good for demo recordings, saves time a lot.

Those Left and Right tones were alreary different (Amp EQ settings), but I have to try how it works with totally different amps/cabs/mics.

 

[~BURNY~]

Doesn't sound right to me.
It sounds like a stereo track with the guitar located on the right which is effectively what you are doing by introducing a delay on the left channel, tricking the brain into thinking the sound is coming mostly from the right.
This is a well kown psychoacoustic effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect

 

[Skaldir]

Thats actually pretty convincing man, well done! You still hear the whole thing pulling to the one side because of the other being delayed but it's pretty good. I think having the different tone on each side helps and having something like Waves ADT on the delayed side to randomize it a bit instead of there being a fixed delay would work will with this. Certainly good enough to use for quick demo's though I wouldn't do it for a final mix.

I have the waves ADT and never got any good sound for a fake stereo. I really would like to have an ADT preset if somebody got something useful.

 

[henryjarv]

Doesn't sound right to me.
It sounds like a stereo track with the guitar located on the right which is effectively what you are doing by introducing a delay on the left channel, tricking the brain into thinking the sound is coming mostly from the right.
This is a well kown psychoacoustic effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect

Delay is on the right...

 

[~BURNY~]

Delay is on the right...

Whoa sorry, I mixed my left and right. Headphones switcharoo It's definitely leaning toward the left which is consistent with the precedence effect.

 

[henryjarv]

I can't test now, but could this be used to "fake quad track"? First record with delay on the left side, and then second guitar with delay on the right side? Then there shouldn't be that "leaning" to other side.
But maybe it doesn't work, interesting to try anyway..

 

[~BURNY~]

You wouldn't get a fake quad tracking effect per se but it would certainly sound balanced, even more so if you're in the "Haas range" (up to 1.26 ms rather than longer delay).
I have tried it in the past and while it works, you get less separation than with a classic level based panning and it can get quite phasey sounding.
More importantly it only works with Headphones or perfect speakers/listener placement.
It's great on synths and backing vocals though.

 

[~BURNY~]

Here's a quick example: (like I said before it requires a perfect placement or headphones)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2973685/delayed guitars.zip

I actually like the 20ms better than the Haas one which sounds phasey but I think the normal one has that classic feel that we all know and love and has a better separation.

 

[Terminus]

Some of you guys must not like recording eh? I can't see myself ever tracking like this but I guess it might come in handy for clients who send you single track di projects...

 

[henryjarv]

I like recording and guitar playing more than anything, but to me it's just interesting to create new guitar tones. And again, good for demo recordings when you just want to create music and everything doesn't have to sound perfect.

 

[henryjarv]

Here's a quick example: (like I said before it requires a perfect placement or headphones)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2973685/delayed guitars.zip

I actually like the 20ms better than the Haas one which sounds phasey but I think the normal one has that classic feel that we all know and love and has a better separation.

Thanks for those examples!

That normal was of course best, and second that 20ms delay. Haas sounded narrow for some reason to me.