GMD Votes: Black Metal prelims + discussion

[Baroque]

edit: Like i said, most of those bands fall under the thrash metal umbrella and identify themselves as thrash metal bands first and foremost. That's why it is called Blackened Thrash, and not "thrashy black metal" and obviously falls under the TM umbrella. But there are some bands that are clearly heavier on black metal. I personally refer to those bands as thrash/black, not blackened thrash.

I disagree depending on the band. I don't call it 'Blackened Thrash'. Metallum seems to have a system based whether it's more thrash (thrash/black), or more black (black/thrash) and it makes sense. The genre it leans more toward should come first.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

That's pretty much exactly what i was saying, and it was in response to Grumbles saying blackened thrash falls under black metal umbrella. Blackened thrash = black/thrash bro. And there are far more blackened thrash bands than thrash/black bands. But fuck this shit man lets move on.

 

[Baroque]

Just looked it up on metallum because I was curious:

121 results for blackened thrash
1545 results for black/thrash
1545 results for thrash/black (same results?)

It seems that they're saying blackened thrash is somehow different. Or different people just have different names for the same thing. Whatever, doesn't matter I guess.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Wow, i thought metallum didn't even use "blackened thrash" and just went with black/thrash.

But yea, like i said there are far more blackened thrash, black/thrash or whatever you want to call it bands than the other way around.

So what are we doing next, the trad list?

 

[crimsonfloyd]

This is by far the most ignorant and pretensious post I've ever seen on this board.

I'll take that as a compliment.

[quoteSecondly, first and second wave black metal weren't philosophical movements. They were kids rebelling against the social norm through music, and through extracuricular activities in the most extreme manner they could devise amongst themselves. It's not deep, it's not philosophical, and it certainly wasn't a matter of intellectualism. Metal in general, at its core, is a very primal, visceral style of music. Worthy of analysis on that basis? Sure, but the idea that one of its major sub-genres was comprised of philosophically minded people is laughably untrue.[/quote]

That, in itself, is a philosophical vision. A philosophical vision does not need to be complex (though some, such as Deathspell Omega's, are). Furthermore, the motives behind an artist's creation is auxiliary to the expression and manifestation of the work of art itself, so the fact Darkthrone and Burzum were kids rebelling against Norwegian society doesn't change the fact that they communicated something profound.

 

[Draehl]

That, in itself, is a philosophical vision. A philosophical vision does not need to be complex (though some, such as Deathspell Omega's, are). Furthermore, the motives behind an artist's creation is auxiliary to the expression and manifestation of the work of art itself, so the fact Darkthrone and Burzum were kids rebelling against Norwegian society doesn't change the fact that they communicated something profound.

Meh. The philosophy is irrelevant IMO. The "atmogaze blahblah" crap Hamburger was spouting has an inherent groove and hypnotic effect in many ways similar to Stoner. Surely, darker, but much of the atmospheric/folky tribal type elements I prefer I'd say come far closer to being a primal spiritual effect than a thought provoking intellectual one. Probably why a lot of the orthodox BM is such a turn off as much of it is more message driven. I suppose it comes down to whether you're looking for substance (message, lyrics, philosophy) or style (art, cathartic release)

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I think you're creating a false dichotomy artistic and philosophical or spiritual/thought provoking. Something like Ildjarn's Strength and Anger is a pure expression of hatred and as such communicates a pure concept. That, in itself, is the height of philosophy and the height of art.

 

[Dak]

If that were true, Hatebreed would out express Ildjarn for "pure" expression, thus making Ildjarn less "pure".

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I'll take that as a compliment.

[quoteSecondly, first and second wave black metal weren't philosophical movements. They were kids rebelling against the social norm through music, and through extracuricular activities in the most extreme manner they could devise amongst themselves. It's not deep, it's not philosophical, and it certainly wasn't a matter of intellectualism. Metal in general, at its core, is a very primal, visceral style of music. Worthy of analysis on that basis? Sure, but the idea that one of its major sub-genres was comprised of philosophically minded people is laughably untrue.

That, in itself, is a philosophical vision. A philosophical vision does not need to be complex (though some, such as Deathspell Omega's, are). Furthermore, the motives behind an artist's creation is auxiliary to the expression and manifestation of the work of art itself, so the fact Darkthrone and Burzum were kids rebelling against Norwegian society doesn't change the fact that they communicated something profound.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say they weren't communicating something profound. I was targetting your response to HamburgerBoy which said something along the lines of thrash metal being "vacuous" and black metal being "higher art" that he doesn't understand. That is a massive generalization, for one thing, and I'm not sure I trust that you've listened to enough thrash to make such a bold claim in favor of black metal.

HamburgerBoy was completely justified in his annoyance with pretentious blackgaze which you all too conveniently followed up with your post. Black metal and shoegaze is a pretty unfitting combination and it's perfectly understandable why fans of more traditional styles of metal wouldn't like it (and that includes fans of Darkthrone and Burzum).

 

[unknown]

so how bout those results

 

[Nephilim96]

I think you're creating a false dichotomy artistic and philosophical or spiritual/thought provoking. Something like Ildjarn's Strength and Anger is a pure expression of hatred and as such communicates a pure concept. That, in itself, is the height of philosophy and the height of art.

2 many big words 4 me

 

[crimsonfloyd]

That, in itself, is a philosophical vision. A philosophical vision does not need to be complex (though some, such as Deathspell Omega's, are). Furthermore, the motives behind an artist's creation is auxiliary to the expression and manifestation of the work of art itself, so the fact Darkthrone and Burzum were kids rebelling against Norwegian society doesn't change the fact that they communicated something profound.

I didn't say they weren't communicating something profound. I was targetting your response to HamburgerBoy which said something along the lines of thrash metal being "vacuous" and black metal being "higher art" that he doesn't understand. That is a massive generalization, for one thing, and I'm not sure I trust that you've listened to enough thrash to make such a bold claim in favor of black metal.

HamburgerBoy was completely justified in his annoyance with pretentious blackgaze which you all too conveniently followed up with your post. Black metal and shoegaze is a pretty unfitting combination and it's perfectly understandable why fans of more traditional styles of metal wouldn't like it (and that includes fans of Darkthrone and Burzum).

Mostly I just like giving HBB shit. Perhaps I haven't heard enough trash, but then again, when 75% percent of the records that people rave about are utterly flavorless and forgettable, it doesn't really make me desperate to spend hours searching for the hypothetical good stuff that may or may not exist.

As for "blackgaze," it can be quite brilliant, i.e. Lantlos. I'd agree that the genre is overcrowded with generic acts, but the notion that the two genres can't meld is simply incorrect.

 

[The Ozzman]

so how bout those results

Working on it right now.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

2 many big words 4 me

Manic said I was the most pretentious poster on the board. That's no small achievment! I've got to protect that title.

 

[The Ozzman]

Thread closed. Take that shit elsewhere now.