How many guitar tracks?

[Demonstealer]

There is always a lot of discussion on guitar recording. I'm curious to how many tracks does everyone normally records for their rhythm guitars.

So far I've always done 2 full rhythm tracks left and 2 right and done a hard pan.

An experienced engineer recently said when micing the guitars i should just have 1 mic close on the cone and a condenser maybe 3 feet behind for the 'room' sound and one track left and one track right should be enough.

What does everyone else have to say?

Would you apply something similar when using the Dual SM57 micing technique?

I'm curious for say the guitar sound on a Pantera album (Far Beyond Driven for example)how many rhythm guitars do you think they've tracked? As opposed to something newer like Soilwork. Or something more complicated like Necrophagist or say maybe on the new Meshuggah? or Dimmu?

 

[Wolfeman]

It all depends on the context of the album being recorded. I usually do two parts right two parts left on all my stuff, but I've heard some great albums done with just one right and one left....

 

[Wolfeman]

I should add that if the guitar player isn't tight enough, then quad tracking sounds like sheeeeet

 

[mick thompson]

my own stuff i do

2 left (sometimes 1 is standard and 2 is pitch shifted)
2 right (sometimes 1 is standard and 2 is pitch shifted)
1 centre (different tone to the 4 above
bass centre

 

[crazykarl]

really depends. i'll do any combo of dual tracked, triple tracked (1 left, 1 center, 1 right) or quad tracked throughout the song. depends on what sounds best. sometimes a chunky part sounds good triple or quad...or maybe if just dual tracked. sometimes less guitar brings out more bass and allows for a heavier sound.

just try them all, get an idea of how each technique makes a part sound (syncopated rhythms, open chord sections, single note grooves, etc.) and build a repertoire of fortified sounds.

 

[lordofthestring]

I always quad tracked with my old PodXT and also with the TSS/8505 combo. Though with my current MKII settings, I seem to get a nice full sound without the need to quad track (either two guitars panned opposite of each other or one track with Mda Stereo on it). As said before, quad tracking can be deadly if you're not that solid or consistent of a player.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

I used to quad track a few years back, but not I stay away from it. With my music I have every instrument of an orchestra playing their own separate parts (including doubling the guitar lines most of the time), quad tracking regardless of how tight you will play will cause more phase cancellation in the lower harmonics, killing crunch and intelligibility, with the increase of gain regardless of amp or cab or recording environment you will get fizz, something I cannot have with an already dense mix, however with all that I usually have going on and the mix being as dense as they generally are, most assume that it is quad tracked (that may be more of adding dual tracked overdub parts over the main rhythm to make one big overall rhythm sound, buts that more of a songwriting approach rather an AE one). By nature a quad track will give you the wall of sound but won;t sound as thick, aggressive and in your face as a dual track, which will be warmer and clearer, without the fizz.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I used to quad track a few years back, but not I stay away from it. With my music I have every instrument of an orchestra playing their own separate parts (including doubling the guitar lines most of the time), quad tracking regardless of how tight you will play will cause more phase cancellation in the lower harmonics, killing crunch and intelligibility, with the increase of gain regardless of amp or cab or recording environment you will get fizz, something I cannot have with an already dense mix, however with all that I usually have going on and the mix being as dense as they generally are, most assume that it is quad tracked (that may be more of adding dual tracked overdub parts over the main rhythm to make one big overall rhythm sound, buts that more of a songwriting approach rather an AE one). By nature a quad track will give you the wall of sound but won;t sound as thick, aggressive and in your face as a dual track, which will be warmer and clearer, without the fizz.

Is this true? I haven't experienced this myself.

 

[crazykarl]

I've never experienced the low end loss...the fizz I have experienced. If I had that low end problem I would just high-pass the 3rd and 4th guitars until the low end was there again.

 

[lordofthestring]

I used to quad track a few years back, but not I stay away from it. With my music I have every instrument of an orchestra playing their own separate parts (including doubling the guitar lines most of the time), quad tracking regardless of how tight you will play will cause more phase cancellation in the lower harmonics, killing crunch and intelligibility, with the increase of gain regardless of amp or cab or recording environment you will get fizz, something I cannot have with an already dense mix, however with all that I usually have going on and the mix being as dense as they generally are, most assume that it is quad tracked (that may be more of adding dual tracked overdub parts over the main rhythm to make one big overall rhythm sound, buts that more of a songwriting approach rather an AE one). By nature a quad track will give you the wall of sound but won;t sound as thick, aggressive and in your face as a dual track, which will be warmer and clearer, without the fizz.

I know exactly what you mean...that's why I favor doing dual tracks over quads right now. I roll back the gain a little and make sure its really clear and crunchy. From there I could add quad tracks but the tone I get at that point with the drums and bass included is very heavy. I'll post a sample in the 'rate my mix' section either today or tomorrow with just dual guitar tracks.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Quad track dont fuck up your low end, It´s just a matter of use a High pass more higher than usual. Last song I did I applied a HPF at 125 hz. That´s quite high, but the definition in low end is there and there is space for the bass.

 

[Metaltastic]

Plenty of great tones have been recorded with the guitars quad-tracked

Plenty of great tones have been recorded with the guitars double-tracked

I prefer double, mostly because of laziness (and I'm satisfied with the tones I get, or rather, I don't think my complaints would be addressed by quad-tracking).

I think that's all that can really be said!

 

[Metaltastic]

Oh, and it doesn't matter how many mics you use on a source, it the amount of different performances/takes you use that determine double or quad tracking.

 

[GarethSE]

ive never really experienced any negative shit through quad tracking

i tend to prefer mixing double tracked stuff though.

 

[ahjteam]

Really depends on the context, for example this kind of material might not even need more than that one guitar when modern metal material usually sounds fucking good with tigher played 4 guitars in lower tuning instead of 2 guitars played sloppily in standard E

 

[Metaltastic]

Wait, how is that a fair comparison? And the quad-tracked clip doesn't even sound like the guitars were panned...

 

[Matthias King]

For whatever it's worth, I only do double tracking. Quad tracking doesn't seem necessary for me.

 

[lordofthestring]

https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1251500/StereoGuitarTest.mp3

There's a sample of just ONE guitar track with some soft backing drums (on my old laptop, no AD damnit). I'm tuned in E, using a Jackson with Super Distortions, running through MKII with Engl impulses. I just threw mda Stereo in front of MKII and voila! A nice chunky guitar sound! Probably a little clipping from the drums and sloppy guitar playing.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

A stereo plugin dont replace different takes for each side. But for just one take it´s not bad at all.

 

[Metaltastic]

https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1251500/StereoGuitarTest.mp3

There's a sample of just ONE guitar track with some soft backing drums (on my old laptop, no AD damnit). I'm tuned in E, using a Jackson with Super Distortions, running through MKII with Engl impulses. I just threw mda Stereo in front of MKII and voila! A nice chunky guitar sound! Probably a little clipping from the drums and sloppy guitar playing.

Ack, sorry dude, but that still sounds pretty mono, and there's some epic harsh nasaliness going on...

FWIW, I've found the best way to half-ass double tracking is to pan the original hard L, and then delay it like 20 seconds and pan that hard R (Steve Vai did this on the Alcatrazz album he played on, for example, since he was always throwing in these little improvised licks and stuff into his riffs). Still not the same though...