I need your opinions on guitar sound

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Hi Andy and everyone,

I am about to record the guitar tracks for my CD but before proceeding I really feel I should ask your valuable opinions and maybe help before doing something wrong and ruining everything... So I recorded a small section with different setups so I could decide which one is the best. You can download (please) the results of my experiments here :
http://tinoo.free.fr/guitar.mp3 (it's 2.25Mo).

While you're downloading, let me explain my configuration. First, I recorded the guitar with a D.I. into the computer, and then sent this back to the amp for reamping, so all tracks come from one source, I played once, it's not doubled. I have a Vetta amp. For those who don't know, and you must be numberous, this is a simulating amp, based on computer chips (by Line 6, I guess most of you know the POD, only the Vetta is way better). One feature of the amp is to allow you to use two different amps at the same time, so my sound setup is a Peavey 5150 emulation for Amp 1, a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier for Amp 2, in stereo (one amp each side) both fed by a Tube Screamer stomp box simulation. I tried the line out recording, but it sucks for big metal sounds, so I dropped the idea. Another feature of this amp is the Double Tracker function. It slightly modifies the timing, tuning and dynamics of your playing to send to Amp 2, so that it's almost as if the part you are playing was already double tracked. It sounds really cool and wide in the room, but I found it a little "flangy" when trying to record and doing my tests.

So you must have finished downloading the mp3 by now, let me explain what it contains... There are 6 different clips of the same part played with different mic and amp configurations. Here we go :

* Part I (0:00) : Recorded with a SM-57, both amp coming out of the same speaker.
* Part II (0:24) : same SM-57, with only Amp 1 coming out from the speaker.
* Part III (0:49) : same SM-57 on the same speaker, but this time with only Amp 2 coming out.
* Part IV (1:13) : Now Amp 1 & 2 mixed (Part II & III if you prefer).
* Part V (1:38) : Only Amp 2 from another speaker with a SM-58 'turned into' a SM-57 (removed the grille... though the sound is really different...), with Double Tracker enabled (so the part is slightly different than the original one).
* Part VI (2:03) : Amp 1 with 57 (aka Part II) and Amp 2 with 58 (aka Part V) mixed together.​

All of these are mono since this will be panned left (or right) and mixed with another amp in the end by the other guitar player of the band (Mesa Boogie Triaxis). And don't worry about the clipping, these must come from the mp3 encoding, I don't have it when listening through Cubase.

I applied a few EQ to the tracks, mainly cutting bellow 80Hz, slightly boosting middle range around 600Hz in some cases, cutting at 10KHz too, and boosting above 12KHz. I also applied Andy's setting for multiband compressor around 120-250Hz.

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out which one is the best, if any of them are good at all actually, and I do believe that this is the place I'll get the best help with fresh ears and capable metal producers who have already heard guitar tracks alone, I mean not in a mix and mastered, but rough... So I can wait to read your opinions, advices and criticisms, and maybe this will not only help me but other people in here too I hope.

Thank you all in advance,

Cheers,

Brett

P.S. : Sorry for this loooooooooooong and boring thread

 

[Andy Sneap]

is it poss to download this rather than have it stream??? I only have mac lap top linked to email so I need to burn it to give you an opinion

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Well, I don't know how it works under Macintosh, but on PC you can right-click (maybe Control-Click on Mac, or Apple Click, I don't know ) and select "Save to Disk" rather than open. I could compress it as a RAR but I'm not sure this would work, or I could send it to you by mail if you want. Just let me know what you prefer, and thank you for trying =)

 

[Forbiddenevil]

To download press CTRL and click!!!
If it is a stream by clicking, Quick Time (plug in) starts. After loading 'Save as' then you have a Quick Time File.

I have heard the guitar track with my computer speakers. Is there some phasing (hope it is the word in english) problem at track 5/6???

Must hear it again in the studio with a referenz-file.

Greetings

 

[Burner]

I think you're definitely headed in the right direction, but the clipping and the aforementioned phasing surely doesn't help in the evaluation-process.

IMO the sound is way too fizzy, so you might want to ease back on the high-end as opposed to your boosting it.

Antoher thing is that IMO there's way too much gain, it sounds garbled like a brazilian grindcore 7". I think you'll notice dramatic improvements in the overall sound if you cut back on the gain and double (or even triple) the tracks.

 

[Andy Sneap]

yep i thought there was too much gain also

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Ok, first thank you all for your quick answers and help ! I did a test with gain down (not totally down of course ) but at a higher volume from the amp and the result is here :

http://tinoo.free.fr/guitar2.mp3 (561Ko)

Can you tell me if this is better or worst (and maybe, in the first mp3, which one was sounding the best, or the less worst should I say ) ? The only tweaking I did on this track was (besides moving the SM-57 a little out of the speaker cone) multiband-compressing (same C4 setting) and cutting the lows at 60Hz (I think I should cut higher, around 80 or even 100 maybe).

Thank you all again and I hope to read from you soon

Brett

 

[Stillborn]

I'd say too much low end Brett... Not enough hig ends and mediums to make the
guitars stand out from the rest of the band... But that's just my opinion.

You are definitely on the right track, but get your ass working on the concept
already ... damn...

Stillborn.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Well thank you all again.

In fact right now I'm not really trying to fix the mixing problem yet (I shall ask you again then ). I want to make sure that the sound I'm recording and the way I'm doing it are optimal, that I'm making no mistakes (like say put the mic too far away, or have too much gain on the amp) to have the best tools to mix in the end and get a good sound. Anyway, keep throwing ideas and suggestions at me !

 

[martyfireball]

Hi. IMHO i still think you have too much gain. With amp simulators (even when miked up), the distortion/overdrive really shows up the "digitalness" of them. I use a Johnson J-station for demoing tracks and it took me two weeks to even get close to a decent sound. Saying that, i now have a sound which i can dial up easily and i'm very happy with (i've compared it too a Pod and Boss GT6, and can't get a good DI in from them...yet).

I would also try using the manufactuers overdrive setting/amp instead of their marshall/peavey etc emulators. These are usually the easiest to get a good tone from.

If you want to hear the J-station sound i use, check out the demo track "Dead" on my site http://www.devilmakesthree.net. Sorry about the sloppy playing BTW!