I need your songwriting critique

[cloy26]

This really isn't a rate my mix/tone test, but more a rate my riffs/writing.

I am INCREDIBLY critical of my writing. I think everything I write sounds incredibly childish and noobish and overall don't get stoked to write at all. This leads to me not writing, obviously. Well, I'm in a band with a lot of potential and can really make things happen. They are a bunch of talented guys and know a ton of people.

The bassist and I share the same view in wanting to create music different from the typical breakdown shit. I like Oh Sleeper a lot. I think they are phenomenal writers, but when I try and write and create riffs with that maturity, I just fall flat on my face, creating something that sounds so dull and so fucking boring.

so.

What do you think of this song? I took it and completely re-wrote it from the previous version. You can hear the previous version at www.myspace.com/tonightwedream. I seriously don't know what to do. I am so dissatisfied with myself as a writer and musician that I almost feel like I don't even want to play, not really, I love it way too much to quit, but you know what I mean.

Any tips, ideas, theories, philosophies on song writing are greatly appreciated. Thinking I can't write a decent song really upsets me and ruins my day. everyday. haha.

New Rewrite.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2376100/1.29.10.TWD.Rewrite3.mp3

The transitions are rough. I was writing it piece by piece.

Ps. Yes, I know the tone is awful and the drums are terrible. Please focus. haha

 

[feles]

Yeah dude, i know what are you feeling. I'm in this situation too, i can't write a song. It very frustrating as you said, sometimes i want to stop playing guitar and these things...
I don't have a band btw.

I listened your song and i liked it. With a good vocalist it'll be very great.
I like the leads too.
Don't give up

 

[TheDriller]

Just had a listen,

Its a pretty good song but to be honest it sounds very generic.
It's like every other core-ish song i've ever heard.

My honest advice is to branch out and listen to other music, take in the entire human musical experience as a whole rather than sticking to one or two favored genres.
Open your mind and spend some time wandering the vast landscape we call "music", maybe even learn a whole new instrument.

 

[smy1]

I don't get it ...

a) This is not a song, but a bunch of riffs and drumbeats stuck together. For an instrumental it is too boring, for a song, it's missing vocals.

b) Assuming that there are gonna be vocals later: your songstructure is a big mess - there is no repetition that makes it possible to latch onto anything. The song stops abruptly which kinda leads me to believe that this is not even the whole song?

c) Some parts are cool instrumentally, but overall it's just one riff after another

So my 2 cents:

1) I can't critique anything that is just a rough sketch of random riffing thrown together

2) You need to find 1 instrumental hook and 1 vocal hook first. Then expand on that. Right now you have neither.

3) I have never heard of Oh Sleeper, so I can't comment on how close this is to their style.

4) With the way it sounds now, EVERYTHING will depend on the singer, because the music is really not very memorable at all (no instrumental hook). It's cool while it is whizzing by, but 1 minute after the mp3 was over, I couldn't remember anything anymore.

5) If your singer will alternate between hard screams/shouts/grunts and clean melodies in the "chorus" (assuming the last part with the extended chords and the guitar melody over it is the chorus?) - simply forget about it. The time for that is over. The Driller is right on the money with that.

On a sidenote: I was listening to Zero System's free EP in the car yesterday. I had put it on an mp3 stick weeks ago and I stumbled upon it without knowing it was on there. While I think the songs are very cool, it took me a long time to figure out what band that was. Simply because it could have been a lot of current bands.

6) If I was producing this, I'd make the singer sing long drawn out melodies over it to counter the fast and somewhat complex riffing. I'd also do things vocally that other people don't do. And I'd write a chorus that utilizes maybe 4-8 words max. You desperately need a hook in this. Otherwise it's just wash.

Don't get me wrong, my initial impression was "this isn't half as bad as he wrote in his post", but the way it is right now leads nowhere. Put vocals on it, then you have a demo that can actually be critiqued.

 

[espartaco]

^^^^^ best advice you can get (edit: refering to TheDriller post ), listen to other kinds/genres (and sometimes not listen anything work too) of music this will open new doors musicaly. analize everything from anything you listen, try to figure out the arragments/progressions/tonality used in the song and why they did it, and more importan try to feel and enjoy listen/writing music , dont force music!

 

[cloy26]

Thanks for all the inspiring words, guys.

I have been wrestling with this extended writers block for the past year and a half. It is incredibly depressing. I don't feel like anything is good enough, which is good I suppose. Better than writing awful stuff and thinking its good. haha. But idk. I do normally listen to a vast variety of music. I'll go from BTBAM to film scores to reign of kindo to a band called parachute musical (really piano driven pop). And I really love it all. But, idk. I feel like I have a mental block every time I try to write. I feel so pressured to write the best song every time, that it makes me tense up and can only travel so far i my tiny little box, defeating the whole purpose of writing music.

 

[smy1]

Cloy26: I think you should just write. Thinking that nothing is good enough is a fallacy. And it's perfectionism that is rooted in the fear of rejection. When you convince yourself that it's not good enough then your subconsicous is often really trying to tell you to not be happy with it so that you don't have to face the criticism of the general public (your friends, fans, press, etc.). I think I write about 50 songs a year. Which means over the past 15 years, I've written something like 750 songs. maybe 150 of those were good. Maybe only 70-100 of those got released! So it really doesn't matter if a song is good or not, just write it when you feel like it. And write any style you feel like writing that day. Be it pop, reggae, metal, country ...

When I get stuck writing electronic dance music for my main project, I simply listen to the radio or music on tv and once I find a song I like, I analyze what I like about it. Let's say it's a certain type of beat and the bassline. Then I try to make a song like that. The work-in-progress filenames will actually hint at that with titles like "Rhianna_Umbrellastyle" or something like that.

After I somewhat mimic the elements that I like stylistically, I'll then "forget" about the original and just add whatever I feel like. Or maybe add a new beat on top, or or or ... Usually in the end I come up with something that was a) fun and spontaneous and b) sounds nothing like the original inspiration (unless you know the original inspiration). Maybe the next day I'll think it's crap, but hey, fuck it. There'll be another day and another song.

Same goes for rock. My newest project there is something where I am simply trying to capture a "vibe". Here's a demo idea: http://www.faderhead.com/temp/01_first_test.mp3

I basically gave myself a certain framework where I said "a) it should be dark, b) the guitars should be overly distorted, c) the drums should be roomy and big and live, d) the synths should sound aggressive". So I have a clear stylistic mindset, but within this mindset I have a lot of freedom to experiment.

Just write anything, man. Even if it's children's music. It'll make you happier in the end.

 

[SocialNumb]

^ Good stuff. Love that synth in there!

 

[cloy26]

Damn. Again. Thanks for the inspiring posts. Really helping me out and changing my perspective.

 

[Line666]

I found a thread the other day with this post in it by Egan:

I'll offer different advice than some. Keep writing nonstop. Demo everything. If you get stuck move on. Inspiration is awesome but there is a craft there too and the more you work at it the better your 'uninspired' ideas will get. TV/movie/video game composers are forced to develop the skill of conjuring ideas on demand and it is a critical skill in that industry. I imagine that pro nashville and popsong writers do the same.
Study songs you think are well written and examine what they are doing arrangement-wise. There is a wealth of stuff in every genre that is worth taking a look at.
It also helps to bounce ideas off of someone who you trust and who will be brutally honest.

I think he's pretty on the money.

I think realistically you need to keep pushing your output, lots of people will tell you to take a break and not to force your inspiration, but I started writing something new every day - even if it was just shit and slowly my shit ideas keep getting a little bit better each time.

 

[FIXXXER]

Just had a listen,

Its a pretty good song but to be honest it sounds very generic.
It's like every other core-ish song i've ever heard.

My honest advice is to branch out and listen to other music, take in the entire human musical experience as a whole rather than sticking to one or two favored genres.
Open your mind and spend some time wandering the vast landscape we call "music", maybe even learn a whole new instrument.

i totally agree with that

 

[ahjteam]

too many parts for a 2 minute song, atleast in my opinion. more repetition instead of a big collection of different riffs. emphasis on THE riff, but only ONE. eg. Pantera - "5 minutes alone" or "Cowboys from Hell"; Iconic main riffs on both. And otherwise emphasis on vocals and riffs around it just normal, easy and pretty mediocre and boring stuff. Like in most Pantera and In Flames songs: usually only 3-5 riffs (+ a few random solos) per song, and they


edit: damn, not easy with no verbs.

 

[kenfobert]

Man I know where you're coming from and I completely understand. I am also pretty critical of my own playing/writing. After a while I have found that there is no point in writing shit just to be "different". Write whatever feels and comes naturally to you. If you're trying to be "different" you're forcing it. And you'll probably never be satisfied with it.

Write songs that you yourself would want to listen to. Who cares if when you;re writing it your thinking to yourself "man, this is to nu-metal and generic, everyone is gonna hate it". Whatever dude, just fucken write it.

Once you start writing more and more, you'll become more comfortable and learn to enjoy your songs.

 

[TravisW]

Here's my two cents:

1. The best part of the song is the outro. That holds my attention MUCH better than any other riff in the song.

2. Second place goes to the little descending riff that resolves into the low octave riff---it comes after the first riff of the song.

3. Last place goes to the low octave riff when it happens more than once or twice. It's not that it sounds bad, but when it happens outside of the resolution of the descending riff I mentioned above, it becomes monotonous very quickly.

4. The first riff of the song is a good verse riff. I don't think it stands out enough to be the main theme of the song.

Okay, this is probably more of a personal critique of the core-type genre or whatever, but unresolved dissonances drive me nuts. The random SQUONK! that doesn't come from anything and doesn't resolve to anything ALWAYS reminds me of some sort of musical Tourette's. That's not to say that there isn't a place for tritones, the odd harmonized second or what have you, but unless it's building and releasing tension, it's just standing in between me and the song.

For what it's worth, I heard three primary riffs in there since I'm lumping the low octave part as a resolution of the descending part. I'd personally take the outro and consider it a "Chorus". That's the hookiest part of the whole thing. I'd take the first riff and consider that "Verse", because while it's a fine riff, it doesn't have that "Hey, pay attention to me!!!" vibe that stands alone really well. I'd make the descending riff part a buildup to the chorus (albeit, somewhat shorter, and removing the majority of the octave part). I'd take the "Chorus" riff, decide how many times it's going to happen in the tune, and strip it down so that the first time it's more sparse, the second time there's maybe another element added, and if I was using it as an outro I'd continue building the density and intensity to the conclusion of the song.
Ultimately, I think you have the raw material here for a good song. Play around with the arrangements and don't be afraid to experiment with conventional song arrangement ideas.

 

[cloy26]

haha amazing. I love the unresolved musical Tourette's comment.

Awesome guys. thanks so much for taking the time to help me out.

 

[ATLA]

i think you should try to stay away from the natural minor scale and dissonant notes, they are that wich will make you sound the most generic.

 

[abt]

I don't think your way of thinking is wrong. It may be a problem if it is stopping you from working, but for me if I'm dissatisfied then it's for a reason. You need to listen to what your writing and ask yourself "would I listen to this" if the answer is no then you need to change it. It can be hard I know but I live by the motto "murder your babies". Sometimes you put a lot of time and effort into something it's hard to let it go. Sometimes there is nothing wrong with what you've written, it's just not appropriate for your artistic vision. This happens to me all the time. Sometimes I can adapt it and other times I just think "this is cool but it is no good for this project. I'll just hang on to it and use it someday somewhere else" I'm pretty sure this the essence of the whole side project phenomena.

I empathise with you. I have no problems writing, it's the recording that gets me. I'm stuck in a server perfectionist rut when comes to recording. I just nit pick over every little detail trying to get it perfect and it still sounds like shit.

Anyway, here are some concepts for you:
- Always write, even if you don't feel like it. Every song writer get stuck at some point, just keep going.
- DO put all your eggs in one basket. Nothing's worse than writers that spread one idea into five songs.
- Murder your babies!

 

[jrt12]

i couldnt agree more with SMY1's comments. he's got some really good pointers and approaches to songwriting there, i would seriously absorb some of that

 

[Harry Hughes]

Just had a listen,

Its a pretty good song but to be honest it sounds very generic.
It's like every other core-ish song i've ever heard.

My honest advice is to branch out and listen to other music, take in the entire human musical experience as a whole rather than sticking to one or two favored genres.
Open your mind and spend some time wandering the vast landscape we call "music", maybe even learn a whole new instrument.

I tend to think sometimes "trying to branch out" can also work against you.

Some are of the opinion that you should set yourself no boundaries.
Personally I think sometimes setting yourself boundaries is a good thing, because it can force you to work harder within a limited set of parameters.
So ultimately you can still make great music with sticking to one or 2 favored genres.

I mean, ultimately, I'm a metal guy. Sure I could learn how to write classical or jazz , or country, but what's so wrong with limiting myself to rock or metal?
Nothing IMO.

 

[TheDriller]

I tend to think sometimes "trying to branch out" can also work against you.

Some are of the opinion that you should set yourself no boundaries.
Personally I think sometimes setting yourself boundaries is a good thing, because it can force you to work harder within a limited set of parameters.
So ultimately you can still make great music with sticking to one or 2 favored genres.

I mean, ultimately, I'm a metal guy. Sure I could learn how to write classical or jazz , or country, but what's so wrong with limiting myself to rock or metal?
Nothing IMO.

Agreed, actually

my point is that, like you said, a bit of branching out in musical tastes can do wonders for ones metal music.

it all comes down to whatever the artist themselves feels comfortable with.
my post above was made from the angle that perhaps the OP is starting to get bogged down in the metal/core/rock conventions, and that a little bit of musical wandering may be healthy.