Iconoclast spoiler thread

[Adam Fiske]

Yeah, there's lots of stuff on the album that reminds me of V. Children of a Faceless God, Electric Messiah, Prometheus, Lords of Chaos, Reign in Madness, Iconoclast, End of Innocence, I COULD GO ON

 

[fire_angel]

Don't ask for a link to the album on the band's official forum. Seriously, how dumb can you get?

 

[MegaDTSX]

WE ARE STRONG....WE WILL STAND AND FIGHT!

WE ARE STRONG....WE WILL STAND AND FIGHT!



****ing epic ****. My God album of all time SERIOUSLY.

 

[Cogluotobusisletmesi]

I think Prometheus is the Radikult of the album.

 

[PlasmaShock]

Fucking amazing album. And typical that the production is ruined by terrible mastering and this loudness war shit.

 

[Cogluotobusisletmesi]

On my first listen, this album sounds like typical Symphony X. Stylistically, it is very similar to Paradise Lost. A few times I was left wondering "Where have I heard that riff before?", only to realize that the place I had previously heard it was another Symphony X album.

I understand they have their own style, but it gets to a point where it verges on virtual repetition.

Has Symphony X become the AC/DC of progressive metal? I hope not.

My favorite track so far has to be "When All is Lost". Even though the piano introduction is tonal, and repetitive, it evolves into a decent song. I wish that the band's lyrics were stronger though. Iconoclast and End of Innocence also stand out.

 

[Roddoliver]

The album is supreme and the production is great, nice job.

 

[Krowsnest]

I just finished listening to When all is lost and i literally started shedding tears. Im so glad i pre-ordered this album, it all sounds so great... long live Symphony X!

 

[Postulate]

I don't like this album. I think it's worse than PL and possibly the worst SX album to date. I'm extremely disappointed.

The title track is some of the most boring, bloated prog-power shlock I've ever heard. What an awful chorus, and retarded Dream Theater riffs to act as fills.

I'm sorry for presenting my opinion so harshly, but I'm very upset about how bad this is.

 

[Ramtieger]

And typical that the production is ruined by terrible mastering and this loudness war shit.

Totally agreed. It's not surprising that people have different views on things, including this, but I find it somewhat surprising that it's still happening as extensively as it is. I would have thought that people would have passed on from that by now and done things differently...

Just like on PL, most of the music sounds really mechanical in all the wrong ways and ends up sounding really flat and one-dimensional. That goes for both the compositions and the production. The riffs seem like they're written without the immediate thought of what's supposed to be put on top of it in terms of vocal melodies as well as the combination with the other instruments, and it makes the songs very similar-sounding and not giving them each a unique color. The way most of the riffs sound, it seems that they've been put together before anything else and in that sense makes it difficult to come up with something that can work in combination with them in terms of melodies, and it certainly shows. That already happened on PL and to some extent before that, too, but it seems like not a lot has changed in that department.

A few times I was left wondering "Where have I heard that riff before?", only to realize that the place I had previously heard it was another Symphony X album.

I understand they have their own style, but it gets to a point where it verges on virtual repetition.

Yeah, there's a lot of that going on throughout the album and it gives the songs even less of a unique identity.

There are moments when I'm drawn into it more and that's when the music changes pace and lets it breathe for a minute. It becomes a real relief when the keyboards are more upfront and not play a backdrop to the never-ending onslaught of guitar riffs. Those are the moments when SX can shine, but it doesn't make me want to listen to it again with any eagerness because of what surrounds those moments and how it's all put together. When All Is Lost contains some of those moments, but even in that song I think the overall composition sounds fairly uninteresting, even though it's certainly more interesting than most of the rest of the album.

I would have preferred a more integrated use of keyboards across the album intertwining with the guitar work and more unique-sounding orchestrations overall to give the album its own tone and identity. It sounds pretty much like a combination of their past work, and in a way that it sounds like it's a repetition of what's been done before.

Seems to me like it would be pretty boring being the keyboard player when it's kept to this constant low-key approach. It's all pretty much turned into the MJR show at this point, and I guess this is the path they're bound to follow. Certainly, some more upfront mechanical-sounding keyboards would have been to my liking and would have fit the theme better, but to each their own. The stuff that's in there is kind of an afterthought and not a fundamental part of the overall construction. Take most of the keyboard stuff out of there and it would be all the same to me. And don't get me started on the lyrics...

 

[fire_angel]

Excellent review Postulate. Some really well thought out points there, backed by some solid logic and reasoning.

I hope you all take that on board when deciding to purchase the cd or not.

 

[Postulate]

Excellent review Postulate. Some really well thought out points there, backed by some solid logic and reasoning.

I hope you all take that on board when deciding to purchase the cd or not.

Listen to the title track. Tell me the chorus isn't forced and bland. Tell me Rullo's drumming doesn't sound robotic and dull. Tell me the opening riff isn't a wank-wreck that goes nowhere, or that Pinnella's tasteless fill in that moment it drops off doesn't remind you of the worst of Jordan Rudess. Tell me the rhythm guitar line isn't formulaic and boring. Tell me the chanting isn't cheesy and unnecessary. Tell me that Romeo's soloing doesn't lack all sense of groove. One phrase two phrase red phrase blue phrase. Prog metal by numbers, spare me.

But that's just like, my opinion, man.

 

[fire_angel]

I appreciate your opinion, but i'm struggling to understand how you have come to these conclussions. It's not enough to claim that every passage or verse has 'been done before', 'sounds generic', or 'sounds like Dream Theater'. Everyone says the same about every prog album they don't like, and it's getting really repetitive. I love old DT, but can't stand their last 2-3 albums, so i get what you are saying - but don't blame the band's new direction, blame your static taste in music (which obviously isn't a bad thing - you like what you like right).

I'm sorry you don't like the album. Thankfully, i do however, and i can't wait to spin it for several years to come. And for what it's worth, i've never been so intrigued by MJR's riffs and solos. There is so much range and diversity behind all the chaos that you can't help but be sincerely impressed.

 

[Postulate]

but don't blame the band's new direction, blame your static taste in music (which obviously isn't a bad thing - you like what you like right).

No it's okay, my taste in music is really bad.

I'm sorry you don't like the album. Thankfully, i do however, and i can't wait to spin it for several years to come. And for what it's worth, i've never been so intrigued by MJR's riffs and solos. There is so much range and diversity behind all the chaos that you can't help but be sincerely impressed.

I thought the solos on this album basically consisted of phrases all the same length and interchangeable (you could have shuffled them around and the solo wouldn't be any worse) - sometimes you can even feel him extending the final note inappropriately to fill the phrase length, like it's a quota he has to fill. And the solos themselves seem placed there as an obligation, too, between choruses. I dunno, he plays guitar better than I or most people could ever dream to but I just don't enjoy those kinds of solos. In something like Of Sins and Shadows the solos are just as technical but they have purpose behind them.

I don't like this album and I think for me the band is done. This album doesn't really introduce anything to their catalogue and IMO is just a poor, generic, pre-packaged effort all around. I love SX but they're not gods and I don't consider their music untouchable. It's a bad album, so I'm going to say so.

 

[ElvenShadow]

overall i think its a really solid album.

tracks that stand out to me in no particular order..

iconoclast
reign in madness
when all is lost
bastards of the machine
electric messiah
end of innocence
light up the night

ive only listened to it once. i pretty much completely disagree with everything postulate says but whatever. especially about the drumming. i think rullo really shines on this album. also, theres plenty of keyboards for whoever said they weren't prominent enough. especially keyboard solos which is something PL lacked... but this album has tons of great ones.

there are a few tracks that didnt really "catch" me, but ive found that many symphony x songs really grow on me with multiple listens. i used to hate incantations of the apprentice for example and now i love that song. cant wait for the special edition to arrive in the mail with my shirt

 

[Postulate]

Just a comparison here -

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-qQMACvXKY&feature=related[/ame]

The vocal harmonies that introduce the verse build up the energy perfectly instead of just being loud and "epic," and Russell's vocal melodies are very energetic and flow well. Pinella's keys dance around the guitar line and compliment it instead of just being there in the background pointlessly (retreating for the chorus). Sweet vocal bridge with some great phrasing, and then the wonderful quadruple solo with the call and response between Romeo and Pinnella. They feel like they're talking to each other. Groovy, melodic, tricky, and just as fast. The difference between the solos is the most shocking part for me. Vocals come back in, throw it on all on the bandwagon and take it all home. 5 minutes, in-out, great track - and it's not even close to the best thing on the album. I don't even need to TALK about the Accolade.

I also take it as an exercise for anyone on this board to listen to just Jason Rullo throughout this song, and then throughout any song on Iconoclast and tell me which is better.

 

[Liampie]

It becomes a real relief when the keyboards are more upfront and not play a backdrop to the never-ending onslaught of guitar riffs.

Well said... The reason why I still don't get the title song after four times listening is because most songs blend into one big guitar riff fest.

I like the album but I just don't recognize the Symphony X from TDWOT, TiO and V. Honestly I think this sounds closer to Dream Theater than to their older albums.

 

[sweepking]

There is no pleasing some people. I think the cd is brilliant...can't wait to see them live with this material. Romeo is so aggressive and insanely fast on this one...it is like he really set out to prove a point. Love it.

 

[RuRoRul]

To be honest you could see from a mile away that the album was going to evoke "Even worse / just as bad as PL"... from the same people that disliked PL. I'm not sure why anyone in that boat is surprised.

Regardless, I do think it's a bit unfair to take a song that's been around for a decade and a half, that you've probably been listening to for several years and hold as a Symphony X "classic", and compare it to the new songs and say that they don't seem as good on the first day. Whether you end up liking the new songs or not I can't imagine immediately deciding they're better than a song you've liked for a long time.

Just listened to the title track again for the second time (I was busy yesterday unfortunately), I think it sounds awesome, and can completely understand people saying it sounds like V in parts. Listening to it recalls stuff like Evolution, Rediscovery, and Revelation from Paradise Lost (never a bad thing in my books) along with something new.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

There is no pleasing some people. I think the cd is brilliant...can't wait to see them live with this material. Romeo is so aggressive and insanely fast on this one...it is like he really set out to prove a point. Love it.

But that's just the thing - it really is the Romeo show. Symphony X is not just composed of MJR and Russ, and people tend to forget that. Pre-Paradise Lost albums (hell, even PL to some degree) showcased that, but this album really does not. I like a lot of the album, but Postulate is right - at first listen it really does seem like a guitar riff fest. Pinnella's keyboard lines (which is what sets Symphony X apart from almost all metal bands in my book) are almost non-existent on this album, and I for one am not happy with that. It's almost that the music is so aggressive that they've lost their melodic edge. Piano lines can fit over heavy riffs, you know. They've proven that in the past.

What makes Symphony X so special to me are the Communion and the Oracles, the Accolades, the Rediscoveries, the Through the Looking Glasses, the Divine Wings of Tragedies, the Candlelight Fantasias, the Awakenings, the Odysseys. You know, the songs with so much depth and melody that most metal bands (or rock bands) couldn't even dream of being able to write. There is one of those songs on this album. One, out of twelve. So yeah, I'm not too thrilled about that.

Now that is not to say that I dislike the heavier Symphony X. On previous albums, including (to a smaller extent) Paradise Lost, they did it well, with a strong sense of melody (Of Sins and Shadows and King of Terrors are good examples). On this album, it seems like many of the songs could have been written by any metal band. What more can I say? There's just nothing unique about a lot of these songs.

I do like a lot of the album (it is still better than most metal out there), but the elements that made this band "Symphony" X are mostly gone. It seems like they're just "X" now. I hope at least some of you can agree.