Question about God.

[hexwind]

Yesterday my friends and I were having a theology discussion, and there was a friend who's an atheist asked us this question(which he couldn't answer himself) so i would like to look for an answer among you my friends, here is the question:
If God is almighty and capable of doing and controlling everything, is he able to create a world that he cannot control?
I hope i could explain the point clearly.

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

This is a fairly common question that is often parodied with questions such as "could God create a burrito so hot that even He couldn't eat it?" The fact that the question is paradoxical and that no logical conclusion can be reached is the whole point of the argument, as it characterizes the absurdity of theistic reasoning.

 

[razoredge]

OK, I think I know what you are asking. I think its similiar to questions like, "if we were created in Gods image, and he is perfect, why are we so fucked up?" or "if God is perfect and all knowing how could he not see this mess coming" or "who in their right mind would stick two people (Adam and Eve) in a garden and tell them NOT to eat the apple or fruit of the forbidden tree" and then be so foolish as to think people would always resist temptation.... and further more create such a scenerio where some simple curiosity would be the damnation of all mankind

I know the religious have all kinds of explainations for this but they fail my sniff test.

So in a way I guess that boils down to what I think BMWG is implying. Theres so many flaws, contradictions and hard to believe "you have got to be kidding me" stuff in the bible... that for me, makes it hard to be impressed with "the guy" enough to worship him as I'm supposedly required too.

Take the story of Abram when God asked him to sacrifice his first born son, now Abram was said to be all out of shape about doing such a deed but still made all preparations to do so. Now had that been me... this would have been my one and only answer..... "FUCK YOU! You crazy, selfish son of a bitch"

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Yesterday my friends and I were having a theology discussion, and there was a friend who's an atheist asked us this question(which he couldn't answer himself) so i would like to look for an answer among you my friends, here is the question:
If God is almighty and capable of doing and controlling everything, is he able to create a world that he cannot control?
I hope i could explain the point clearly.

the general Christian respons would be "God can do anything that is in accordance with his nature."

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

the general Christian respons would be "God can do anything that is in accordance with his nature."

That response completely ignored the question and was wholly inadequate.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

That response completely ignored the question and was wholly inadequate.

OK, I'll rephrase... God can do anything that does not involve a logical impossibility. I.E. God cannot make a square circle... so technically they would have to conceed that God could not do 'everything' strictly speaking.

 

[razoredge]

God can too make a square... circle... have you ever seen a tornado hit a house ? Thats the work of God you know.

Which brings me to... women

Now here we have this all knowing invisible dude... right ? So he decides to make two different sexs so we can entertain ourselves and pair up and breed and all that good stuff. Now he gets the physical attraction thing down right and the two sexs fit together like pieces of a puzzle... BUT... he arranges our cerebral process so as we would be destined to not really "get along" all that well and never be able to understand what the hell each other is thinking.

I mean WTF ?

 

[hexwind]

Sometimes I think God created physical objects as well as other tools for us,such as physic laws and logic and the like which can't be applied at him, so human have only these tools to understand the nature of this universe..
It may sound bullshit to most of you, but there is a probability that it is correct I believe.

 

[monoxide_child]

this is, once again, a thread where i have to totally agree with Black Metal White Guy

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

Sweet, let's hang out IRL

 

[monoxide_child]

Sweet, let's hang out IRL

 

[metal_wrath]

I don't think the question is phrased very well.

Are you asking "If God is all powerful how can people and events exist which are against the laws of God?" or something like that?

I am not sure that God according to monotheistic religions is supposed to be all powerful and perfect, but more of some kind of a benevolent creator. Many religious people don't even seem to believe that their God is ruler of or holds power over all things or even of the whole earth, but only of the people of their religion or their nation.

 

[hexwind]

I don't think the question is phrased very well.

Are you asking "If God is all powerful how can people and events exist which are against the laws of God?" or something like that?

I am not sure that God according to monotheistic religions is supposed to be all powerful and perfect, but more of some kind of a benevolent creator. Many religious people don't even seem to believe that their God is ruler of or holds power over all things or even of the whole earth, but only of the people of their religion or their nation.

no, what i meant was, if God was powerful and perfect and controls everything, could he create a world that he can't control?

 

[metal_wrath]

no, what i meant was, if God was powerful and perfect and controls everything, could he create a world that he can't control?

Maybe if he chose not to control it.

 

[Resonator]

Yes and no. Yes because the people on that planet could just be atheist, and therefore have no concept or help from the signs of his work. The works of God are bound by nature, or at least all we'll be able to see in 3 dimensions. This is how prophets work, they take the work of God and predict. The more you know, the more accurate the prediction.

No, because in a sense God's works are what we live. His works revolve around us because we are his hosts. So if someone gets their miracle cure for a disease, it's because the hospital was a good thing, and it was available for them to get the cure from. Bad things are simply the absence of good things, and the only reason it would be bad is because of the judgment placed on things. Knowledge of Good and Evil, in a sense, is the vice that ties our hands together. If I killed a man for a good reason, I loved something enough to commit an action, but if his son/daughter/wife/whatever hates me for it, it's the absence of good things based on the judgment.

This is the will of God. Not that God has a will, but through us we are and commit his will for him in all ways. No matter what we do.

 

[Merloch]

Ive seen Peter Tagtgren make a square circle.

 

[Death Aflame]

Maybe if he chose not to control it.

But if he can choose to control it or not control it at anytime, he still ultimately has control, no?

 

[hexwind]

But if he can choose to control it or not control it at anytime, he still ultimately has control, no?

I think this is the answer that I had but i couldn't express properly.

 

[-Davo]

Yesterday my friends and I were having a theology discussion, and there was a friend who's an atheist asked us this question(which he couldn't answer himself) so i would like to look for an answer among you my friends, here is the question:
If God is almighty and capable of doing and controlling everything, is he able to create a world that he cannot control?
I hope i could explain the point clearly.

This is the exact same argument as "can god create a rock so heavy he him self cannot lift?"

The answer requires an open mind.

And no Atheist has used this argument.

If God cannot break the laws of nature, how did he walk on water? And fiting the entire species of life into an ark? And how did he rise again from the dead?

God is well known for breaking the laws of logic and nature, and when this presents a paradox, some people (mainly theists) decided to give God limitations.

The question uses a default assumption that God does exist, and because this is a logical paradox, there is no answer.

 

[hexwind]

This is the exact same argument as "can god create a rock so heavy he him self cannot lift?"

The answer requires an open mind.

And no Atheist has used this argument.

If God cannot break the laws of nature, how did he walk on water? And fiting the entire species of life into an ark? And how did he rise again from the dead?

God is well known for breaking the laws of logic and nature, and when this presents a paradox, some people (mainly theists) decided to give God limitations.

The question uses a default assumption that God does exist, and because this is a logical paradox, there is no answer.

Obviously we don't have the same concept of God.
You are talking about Jesus Christ, and I meant GOD not a prophet. I mean, "The Father of Jesus" in your a beliefs (in case you are Christian)