The Butt's Friendly Debate Hour: Is Music Just Sound? Or Is It Also Ideology?

The Butt

The Admiral
Sep 10, 2007
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The void.
I've recently been in a debate on another board, in which I claimed that ideology plays a part in what makes some genres what they are; black metal, while not inherenty Satanist, is inherently anti-Christian; this is a princile the genre was founded on, and thus, when you introduce Christian elements to black metal, it ceases to be black metal.

However, I was met with criticisms such as "music is just music", "genres are not bound by ideology", etc, and people making claims without substantiating them, which I think is bullshit.

What do you think?
 
Dude was going on about "economic factors", "anti-capitalist movement", and how genre was just a "constuct" created by corporations and whatnot, and how "seeing music as just music will allow people to reimagine its revolutionary potential".

I dont even. It was totally unrelated to my point and made me realize: this dude is probably a business major. :erk:
 
Surely you must agree that even Abigail and Barbatos have underlying ideals behind their music though. That being "metal, liquor, and sluts are awesome".
 
I agree. But apparently I have been told my claims require proof. It totally floors me.

But to humor him, I linked this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre

"A conventional category that identifies pieces of music as belonging to a shared tradition or set of conventions". Now, lets analyze this: "shared tradition or set of conventions"... like a particular ideal a genre was built upon? Like the "shared tradition" of anti-Christianity in black metal? I think so.

Now, he says pieces can only be analyzed singularly based on the message or ideal of the one piece, which would invalidate the "ideology is a defining factor in determining genre". This is not the case. If a piece belongs to a particular genre, it must be analyzed based on the norms and standards its genre upholds. This is why, if you utilize realism in a painted piece you originally intended to be impressionist, it ceases to be impressionist. The two ideals, realism and impressionism, are diametrically opposed.

If you had asked me 5 or 6 years ago about "unblack metal", I would have told you it was black metal, and that it was actually sorta cool. But that was when I was relatively naive and unknowledgeable about black metal. How can you use an anti-Christian engine to preach a Christian message? It totally invalidates both the musics status as black metal, and the musics Christian message (1 Thessalonians 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil", which goes against black metal's anti-Christian sound and ideals). So not only do the black metal scene reject Unblack metal as being invalid, so does the very religion itself.

Q.E.D.
 
I belive that the entire genre of metal is anti-mainstream and anti-commercial. It's an anti-conformist ideal, a way of life, much more than just sound. Once you sell out, you're not metal anymore.
P.S. Fuck Avenged Sevenfold, System of a Down, Slipknot, etc...
 
Unfortunately, the dude keeps bringing "economic factors" into the matter, and saying that genres only serve a "pragmatic" purpose, so ideals cannot be a factor in genre identity

:erk: I'm too jaded to argue with him further, hence why I gave up and he has the last word.
 
His argument level = Einherjar

Your argument level = JGMetalhead