Very low tuning--->very loose strings

[Toorop]

As a fan of death-metal like Carcass and Morbid Angel, I've always asked myself how they could play so low.That is, when you tune like them 6 half-steps below standard tuning, in fact, the strings will be 2 times looser.
Indeed, the tension of a string is proportional to the square of the frequency;tuning 6 h-s down means dividing the frequency by 2^(6/12)=sqrt(2).Thus, the tension will be divided by two.
As a bassist,I began to play with standard tuning;and now I have to play in D, 2 hs below.And the fact is, I feel it considerably: I have trouble to play up and down fast, because the string moves too much.And I can't imagine what it would be like to play like Morbid Angel!!! Do you have tips for that?
To have a good tension on the E-string I had the idea to use a big nasty B -string from a 5-bass string set.The playing was comfortable, as this big string was well taut and so on;moreover, having calculated the tensions in the neck of my bass (a Jackson Kelly),it seemed they were more balanced that in a standard set of strings. With such a set, there were some noticeable differences (about 25%) in the different tensions. When I told the guy at the music store about this problem, he said to me 'but no! it's not all about your physics and stuff!' and I knew nothing more about this issue.
But don't you agree that the neck being symmetric, the constraints it endure have at least to be so?

 

[chaoticmanifesto]

carcass actually tune down to B E A D F# B...that's 2 and a half steps lower.
and morbid angel use 7 strings, and tune them all down half a step.

 

[Trench]

Actually in a lot of those bands even if the guitar players are using 6-strings tuned down 2 1/2 steps, the bass players will usually have a 5 string, that way they can maintain the tension in the strings, have the clarity, and still have that extremely low end.

Honestly i don't know how the guy from Carcass does it though, cause I saw a bootleg show of them and he was using a 4 string, so I am pretty much guessing he was usig the thickest strings he could find, cause that helps maintain more tension in the strings.

 

[xenophobe]

For bass, having a long scale helps tremendously. For guitar, you're going to a pretty thick gauge of strings 12's or 13's to keep any kind of reasonable tension...

If you want to do it, I'd suggest looking into a baritone scaled guitar, which is designed for lower BEADGB tunings, or a 7 string.

 

[Feanor IV]

I don't really know anything much about this subject, but I suppose you have to use lower strings. I don't believe anyone can play with a normal string tuned down so much. And even if he can, the sound will be terrible. Else, there would not be six different strings. There'd be only one (the 1st) which we would use for all six 'slots', tuning it down every time Hehehe

 

[Kozmos]

It's the low strings where the tension becomes an issue. I have one guitar tuned in B and use the following string set 10-13-17-30-42-52. That works just fine giving enough tension for rythm picking and nice slightly-slacker-than-usual feel on the higher strings - which i prefer for soloing.

 

[i acnt spell]

I have always wanted to buy a Jackson as my second (predominantly metal) guitar and keep it tuned down to C or B, but I have always wondered a few things. What modifications would I have to do to it if I were going to change it from playing 10s or 11s tuned in standard E tuning to 12s or 13s tuned 2 steps down to C? Would any adjustments have to be made in order to keep the guitar playable, keep the trem in tact, etc?

 

[NAD]

Carcass and Morbid Angel didn't use extremely low tunings really. Some of their stuff was even in *gasp* standard tuning!

I would recommend that you play with a much softer touch when playing with very loose strings.

 

[Sunbane]

I have always wanted to buy a Jackson as my second (predominantly metal) guitar and keep it tuned down to C or B, but I have always wondered a few things. What modifications would I have to do to it if I were going to change it from playing 10s or 11s tuned in standard E tuning to 12s or 13s tuned 2 steps down to C? Would any adjustments have to be made in order to keep the guitar playable, keep the trem in tact, etc?

Nothing out of the ordinary. The trem would have to be re-balanced and re-intonated, and the neck might need a bit of adjustment.

I think that the trem might not hold its tuning quite as well as it does with "normal" guage strings (most Floyds were designed for .009's), but that is merely speculation on my part.

'bane

 

[IcedEarth725]

Nothing out of the ordinary. The trem would have to be re-balanced and re-intonated, and the neck might need a bit of adjustment.

I think that the trem might not hold its tuning quite as well as it does with "normal" guage strings (most Floyds were designed for .009's), but that is merely speculation on my part.

'bane

Why woudl it be reintonated ? i Play my KE-3 in Eb. Does this mean ill need it reintonated ? I know When i began using Eb i had to re-adjust my trem tension.

 

[Sunbane]

Why woudl it be reintonated ? i Play my KE-3 in Eb. Does this mean ill need it reintonated ? I know When i began using Eb i had to re-adjust my trem tension.

I'm not sure if you need to re-intonate if you just tune down, but use the same guage strings. If there's a difference, I'm guessing it would be minimal. If you've gone to a heavier guage though, you will have to re-intonate.

It's simply because different string guages intonate differently. If you look at your bridge, you'll notice that the bridge saddles all are positioned at different points. Typically, thicker strings need longer "active" length than thin ones, and plain strings longer than wound ones.

You may even need to intonate if you just switch the brand of strings, not guage, since manufacturing techniques and metal alloys could make a big enough difference.

'bane

 

[xenophobe]

Intonation is a tricky issue. Sometimes you can change tunings and string gauges without needing to reintonate, other times you do.

Depends mostly on the particular guitar, and I've noticed that build quality doesn't play as much a role as how picky a certain guiar might or might not be.

Any time you change string gauges, tuning, or make any truss rod or trem adjustments, you should check our intonation, and see if it's livable to you.

You need either a strobe tuner or oscilliscope to actually make certain whether a guitar is accurately intonated. I doubt anyone could do this by ear, or with any handheld tuner to any degree of real accuracy.