Video for Nightwish "Bye Bye Beautiful"

[Jibrille]

Because Marcelo was there to say Tuomas is in love with her and his jealousy was the only reason she got fired in the end. She's handed her career over to him and it's pretty easy to see he didn't want her doing any of the talking in regard to what was happening. Pretty much all the problems involving her and the band were public knowledge. We all know the shows were never officially confirmed for the US tours (the only confirmed date was the NE Hardcore & Metal Fest) and clubs jumped too early on selling tickets but they still were deep into the process of getting that tour when she rejected it. The thing I have to wonder about her complaining in regard to no backstage women's bathrooms is just how hard is it to use them as a unisex bathroom? I've been to clubs where the public bathroom is a unisex bathroom (the Avalon in NYC is simply awesome). And as someone pointed out, how do you only find out about a show a week before it is supposed to occur? If the singer actually acted like part of the band, they should know about the going ons. Did Marcelo forget to pass on the message that she had a gig that night? Look at the End of Innocence dvd. I remember people complaining about the lack of Tarja in it. If she's not hanging out with the band outside of shows, how else was she to end up on it? Kerrang had an award show and after party. The article specifically pointed out that Tarja did not attend the after party while the rest of the band did (this was probably about 6 months before she was fired). She didn't want to be a part of this band and as I mentioned to someone once saying the band had left themselves high and dry when they fired Tarja, what exactly were they supposed to do when she decided to leave on her own a year or 2 later? It was either act now when they planned to take time off or scramble later.
Perhaps they could have done it in a better fashion. Though airing out all the dirty laundry from the start did prevent the onslaught of speculation (for the most part anyway).

 

[Stingray11214]

Here is Marcelo's "explanations'. http://www.tarjaturunen.com/fans.html

Happy reading!

 

[speedy1383]

The two songs I've heard do sound good. Her voice doesn't seem all that distinctive though. I do get the generic comments. And it is spineless to fire someone through a letter. It is true that Tarja brought a lot of problems on herself, but she still deserved to told to her face that she was ousted.

 

[AMBR]

And it is spineless to fire someone through a letter. It is true that Tarja brought a lot of problems on herself, but she still deserved to told to her face that she was ousted.

She basically wasn't talking to them face to face anymore. Communications had become mostly through Marcello. I don't blame them for not wanting to do it in person with her stooge there. Maybe if they could have talked alone, but that was no longer possible. I think she let the situation deteriorate to that point, so the method of delivery was as much her doing as theirs.

 

[Stingray11214]

She basically wasn't talking to them face to face anymore. Communications had become mostly through Marcello. I don't blame them for not wanting to do it in person with her stooge there. Maybe if they could have talked alone, but that was no longer possible. I think she let the situation deteriorate to that point, so the method of delivery was as much her doing as theirs.

And, let's say they did fire her "face-to-face" after Hartwall, what do you think would have happened? You probably would have had a situation that the Eagles had during their famous "Wrong Beach", where they all nearly killed each other after the show. Marcelo and Tarja's entourage and the Nightwish crew would have probably have had a brawl that the Helsinki PD would have been involved, and create a national embarassment. (Remember, both Presidential candidates were at that show)

The way they fired her was not gutless. In light of the situatin around them, it was pure common sense.

 

[Magius]

She basically wasn't talking to them face to face anymore. Communications had become mostly through Marcello. I don't blame them for not wanting to do it in person with her stooge there. Maybe if they could have talked alone, but that was no longer possible. I think she let the situation deteriorate to that point, so the method of delivery was as much her doing as theirs.

Are they afraid of Marcello? Was Marcello going to fly into a rage and beat them all up??? Some how I think not. Perhaps he was going to become angry and curse at them? Verbally lash them? Oh my! Perhaps they were more spineless than anyone realized.
You can fire someone face to face no matter who else is present. Even if for some reason it wasn't possible, and the Marcello excuse is implausible, it could have been done by via a phone call. In the event that it had to be done via a letter it certainly could have been private and not an open letter to the public. Obviously it was purposefully done to elicit as much embarrassment for Tarja as they could. The way it done would be similar to your boss taking you to lunch at a busy restaurant and firing you in front of all the patrons. Nice.

In any event she's been fired. Continued smearing and potshots like this song are just petty at this point.

And, let's say they did fire her "face-to-face" after Hartwall, what do you think would have happened? You probably would have had a situation that the Eagles had during their famous "Wrong Beach", where they all nearly killed each other after the show. Marcelo and Tarja's entourage and the Nightwish crew would have probably have had a brawl that the Helsinki PD would have been involved, and create a national embarassment. (Remember, both Presidential candidates were at that show)

The way they fired her was not gutless. In light of the situatin around them, it was pure common sense.

Ridiculous.
First, you’re now inferring that Tarja’s and Marcelo’s entourage are predisposed to violence. I don’t know how you arrive at “probably,” but I don’t suppose there’s any basis in fact to support your inference.
Secondly, giving you the benefit of the doubt, it wouldn’t have had to be at that venue. They could have had a formal band meeting, or even been at a studio. Nor does it explain how either a phone call, or at the very least a private letter wouldn’t have been more appropriate.

 

[J-Man]

I think, and this is just my opinion, as I don't have any inside info or anything except what I have read in the book, and in interviews. The members of Nightwish had tried on many different occassions to enter into talks with Marcelo and with Tarja, to no avail. letters were sent, Phone calls were made with no answer or "We Will get back to you Later". And Yes Tarja was fired in a private letter, that did go public. She was given the letter after the concert and the letter did not go public until later, was this the right thing to do? Yes I think so given Marcello's tendencies to twist the truth and to always say "Poor ME". This song maybe a jab at her, but I think it is more of a confession of disappointment, and regret, that things could not have been worked out, and not meant to embarass her, in fact the title says it all "BYE BYE BEAUTIFUL. I don't believe that any members have ever slammed or even said one word against Tarja since the split. At least I have not heard any. That is just my two cents worth right or wrong. But I still love the song, and I believe this is the right direction for the band to go.

 

[nailz]

Yes, I think there's a lot of confusion on how the band fired her. I don't know if people realised she was given the letter at the end of the "End of an Era" DVD recording show. I don't think the WAY they fired her was spineless, but I definitely think taking the internal band matters that were explicitly expressed in the letter was not a good move. Anyone familiar with Savage Circus' split with Thomen recently over on the Blind Guardian forum will tell you that stupid arguments like this should be kept private, lest it turn into a "he said she said" debacle. A simple "We've parted ways with Tarja for personal disagreements and other private reasons." would've sufficed.

That said, back to the song: I guess maybe this is a potshot that should not have been taken in my opinion, but I do guess you cant limit what others write and express, and if this is how Tuomas feels, who's to say he shouldn't put it to song. Thats what he's good at.

 

[Entrerie]

Sorry to derail the heated discussion, I promise this is somewhat related. I know right before the Tarja break-up they were working on a new album and there was a preview clip of a video they were shooting where they were all in armor and it was in the middle ages or something. Did that ever get released, not finished, locked up in a vault, or am I imagining the whole thing?

I found it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoDzlUPjhdI

 

[Harvester]

"Bye Bye You Stupid Bitch" wouldn't be quite as catchy in the chorus department.

 

[rms]

regardless of her leaving, she took the great Nightwish with her

 

[nailz]

What is it with youtubes encoding to fuck with the sync? Good lord. I think the biggest disappointment with Tarja leaving nightwish, for me, is that she was finally starting to get english pronounciation down to the point where i could actually understand her.

 

[Stingray11214]

Are they afraid of Marcello? Was Marcello going to fly into a rage and beat them all up??? Some how I think not. Perhaps he was going to become angry and curse at them? Verbally lash them? Oh my! Perhaps they were more spineless than anyone realized.
You can fire someone face to face no matter who else is present. Even if for some reason it wasn't possible, and the Marcello excuse is implausible, it could have been done by via a phone call. In the event that it had to be done via a letter it certainly could have been private and not an open letter to the public. Obviously it was purposefully done to elicit as much embarrassment for Tarja as they could. The way it done would be similar to your boss taking you to lunch at a busy restaurant and firing you in front of all the patrons. Nice.

In any event she's been fired. Continued smearing and potshots like this song are just petty at this point.




Ridiculous.
First, you’re now inferring that Tarja’s and Marcelo’s entourage are predisposed to violence. I don’t know how you arrive at “probably,” but I don’t suppose there’s any basis in fact to support your inference.
Secondly, giving you the benefit of the doubt, it wouldn’t have had to be at that venue. They could have had a formal band meeting, or even been at a studio. Nor does it explain how either a phone call, or at the very least a private letter wouldn’t have been more appropriate.

Could not have been done afterwards, because there would have been no way to do it privately with Marcelo around. Furthermore, there was a major event with the fan clubs on the Sunday after. Tarja was either a) Unaware of it, or b) not invited, or c)knew about it but blew it off. Now, I ask you: What if it was your wife, and you considered her to be the centerpiece of her band? How would you take it if you BOTH got called into the office and got canned? I dare to think that you will not be jumping for joy, but be eternally pissed.

Henceforth, the boys did the right thing.

 

[Magius]

Could not have been done afterwards, because there would have been no way to do it privately with Marcelo around. Furthermore, there was a major event with the fan clubs on the Sunday after. Tarja was either a) Unaware of it, or b) not invited, or c)knew about it but blew it off. Now, I ask you: What if it was your wife, and you considered her to be the centerpiece of her band? How would you take it if you BOTH got called into the office and got canned? I dare to think that you will not be jumping for joy, but be eternally pissed.

Henceforth, the boys did the right thing.

Jumping for joy? No. Angry? Yes. Anger and disagreement can still be expressed and controlled in a civilized matter. Being afraid to face that anger is the definition of spinelessness. It's not as though Marcello would attempt to attack all four of the other members after all, as he plainly admitted that Emppu alone always kicked his ass whenever they practiced Judo. You may check you own link to verify that if you must.

Some people will justify anything I guess. Although it is quite possible to appreciate a band's talent, like their music, and at the same time acknowledge that their actions in a given situation were less than admirable.

 

[speedy1383]

Well said Magius. Especially the last sentence. The group could have really come out of the situation smelling like a rose. But that didn't happen with all the steps and actions they took. It is too bad how it all fell apart.

 

[Jibrille]

A simple "We've parted ways with Tarja for personal disagreements and other private reasons." would've sufficed.

You really think the Finnish media would have left it at that? Instead of months of speculation on the new singer, it would have been months of speculation on what happened.