A survey to prove a rumor about metalheads

[Tennyson]

You know, there's this little thing called "needing to eat and keep a roof over your head" that a lot of people forget about it when they're well off enough that it's not a concern for them. There's also a large helping of entitlement with the attitude "You should spend your time and energy making stuff for me, but don't expect to ever get anything in return. It's all about ME dammit!"

You're treating music like it's a product to be bought and sold. I'm not entitled to listen to great works of art, I'm privileged to. That privilege is dictated by the artist. They are the ones who decide to create their music and distribute it - and in the age of web 2.0 run the risk of their music being downloaded. If that risk of losing money supersedes their drive to make art, then they aren't artists, they are businessmen.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Metalheads who don't buy CDs are posers.

Metalheads who buy CDs instead of vinyl are posers.

(Kidding, but just pointing out that I prefer to buy vinyl over CDs.)

You're treating music like it's a product to be bought and sold. I'm not entitled to listen to great works of art, I'm privileged to. That privilege is dictated by the artist. They are the ones who decide to create their music and distribute it - and in the age of web 2.0 run the risk of their music being downloaded. If that risk of losing money supersedes their drive to make art, then they aren't artists, they are businessmen.

I completely agree with this, but I still think it's good to offer support to those artists when you appreciate their art with any sincerity. I also like the art I enjoy to be as palpable as possible, so holding a copy in my hands and seeing the artwork in its full glory is enjoyable to me.

 

[skeptik]

How can you completely agree with that? The idea of acknowledging that one's privilege to listen to a work of art is dictated by the artist while at the same time asserting that it is equally dictated by those who pirate music kind of makes it a stupid thing to say. If you recognize that your privilege to listen to a piece of music is at the behest of its creator, then you shouldn't support others infringing on that.

By the way, as I've already pointed out, music, or copies of the music, which is what you have access to, are products to be bought and sold. Treating it otherwise is erroneous.

 

[Psy-Q]

The selling and buying also has very interesting implications on the music download market. If I buy a CD, I can sell it to other people or trade it for other CDs if I grow sick of it. If I buy a downloadable track, I can do nothing of the sort. I can't transfer the MP3s to a stranger even if I would be so kind and delete them on my own machine after the sale.

This is a very weird side-effect of the change that is happening to music, with the market going from selling real physical items that can be resold to selling something as ephemeral as a "download right". No more flea market vinyl sales, no more rare editions?

The future generations (and here's me sounding like my beard's much longer than it actually is) might not experience how there can be something physical related to piece of music. I love that stuff! If it's some special edition, I usually even remember the texture of the special paper they used in the CD booklet when I listen to the album.

Look at Chthonic's CDs! Those are masterpieces of packaging, each CD contains special collector cards, a set of pretty Taiwanese "prayer money" with some calligraphy on it or other amazing little gimmicks. The band said they like to do this because it improves sales of the original CD in Taiwan. Those special items are something the pirates can't be bothered to copy. Real, proper pirates that sell copied CDs, I mean.

I really hope something physical element and some way of resale and trade can remain alive, even though the survey answers so far point in a different direction

I'm very modern in almost all things, but I like my music reasonably old-fashioned, preferably on a CD and not mixed with so much loudness that it has all the dynamics of a dead duck.

 

[Tennyson]

I completely agree with this, but I still think it's good to offer support to those artists when you appreciate their art with any sincerity. I also like the art I enjoy to be as palpable as possible, so holding a copy in my hands and seeing the artwork in its full glory is enjoyable to me.

agreed.

My post wasn't even serious.

You're not a poser just because you don't buy albums, but you are a fucking douchebag and most likely a faggot too. Also the idea that I somehow limit what I allow myself to listen to based on genre restrictions or something of that sort is a great source of amusement to me.

how can I be a poser if I'm not trying to be anything? There's nothing to "be" as far as I'm concerned, I listen to metal - I'm not a metal listener.

 

[-CC-]

One of my favorite metal CD stores (Knochenhaus in Zürich) had to close a few months ago

Knochenhaus closed?!!! I leave Zurich for a couple of years and THIS happens?!

What's funny is that when I went to Citydisk in Niederdorf, I met the guitarist for PX-Pain (who works there) and he was telling me they had to disband because no one was buying their albums...I went to their last ever show too...but to be fair they weren't exactly an extraordinary band to begin with..but still it's a shame things like these have to happen..

 

[skeptik]

how can I be a poser if I'm not trying to be anything? There's nothing to "be" as far as I'm concerned, I listen to metal - I'm not a metal listener.

Please re-read the very post that you quote where I clearly state that my post was not serious and that "You're not a poser just because you don't buy albums."

 

[Tennyson]

ya i did read that wrong, I thought you said "you're not just a poser because" instead of "you're not a poser just because." /facepalm justified

 

[rms]

Who says it has to influence an artist? Obviously many popular artists shape their music based on what they think and are told will sell, but do you really think Pagan Altar sounds the way they do because they think that will make them the most money? And yet they do care about being reimbursed for their hard work, which is why they avidly fight against bootlegs of their work.

i dont think its the same thing as im talking about but suck at english so will never be able to portray it correctly. Protecting against bootlegs and creating music with the intent to profit are different

 

[Lijemo]

You're treating music like it's a product to be bought and sold. I'm not entitled to listen to great works of art, I'm privileged to. That privilege is dictated by the artist. They are the ones who decide to create their music and distribute it -

I'm treating music like it's something that takes time and energy to create, and therefore those that appreciate & benefit from that should give something back to the artists. Money is just the most convenient & most likely to be useful way of doing that.

and in the age of web 2.0 run the risk of their music being downloaded. If that risk of losing money supersedes their drive to make art, then they aren't artists, they are businessmen.

I never addressed the issue of music downloading, so I'm not sure why you're responding as though it were part of my argument. I do think that always downloading stuff for free and never giving the artist any compensation is a jackass thing to do. But that's not the only context that downloading happens in, and I really don't want to delve into the questions of when it's helpful to the artists vs not.

When I say it's perfectly reasonable for artists to want to be compensated for their work, I mean that broadly. I'm not addressing the specifics of any particular practice.

(Note that I am not a musician myself, so this isn't about me)

 

[skeptik]

i dont think its the same thing as im talking about but suck at english so will never be able to portray it correctly. Protecting against bootlegs and creating music with the intent to profit are different

And my point was that expecting that people purchase your music rather than obtain it illegally and creating music with the intent to profit are also different.

 

[waif]

Discussions about the ethics of downloading are so productive. After this we should talk about Opeth.

 

[skeptik]

I could be productive if people were willing to have a serious conversation about it and not just get defensive because they download and have to justify it.

 

[IntoPhagist]

I can't stand FYE anymore. All the albums that I bought during high school came from that store, but I've wasted so much money there over the years due to their through-the-roof prices. Not to mention their metal section contains only the most popular of metalcore and deathcore, with some established melodeath and tech death acts thrown in. Only having access to the established bands wasn't such a big deal when I was new to metal, but I sure am glad the -core genres hadn't taken off yet.

I still go in whenever I'm in the area, but I ignore their music collection completely, because they fail hardcore at offering a reasonable price on anything. I really wish I'd discovered online shopping earlier in my music consuming career. They do occasionally have good deals on used games and movies though, which is the only reason I continue to visit.

They recently updated the metal section where I'm from and it ain't bad. I saw the new Hypocrisy for 9.99. But I don't think I'll buy it. I hate ordering albums also sometimes cuz of Imports, I just really got into Burzum and every album of theirs online is expensive.

 

[Badbird]

Looking at this from a financial perspective, I hope those are just additional things that can be purchased from the store, as opposed to the store's focus. As many local CD shops are going out of business, I would guess the only way that you would even break even is if you're selling instruments, equipment and accessories, as well as charging for lessons and repairs.

That will be a great idea so my store won't go out of business so I will add that to my music store.Also you can buy band shirts too in my store.

 

[Doomguy]

That will be a great idea so my store won't go out of business so I will add that to my music store.Also you can buy band shirts too in my store.

cool

 

[Estellise Sidos Heurassein]

I can barely afford to buy more than one or two albums each month. I still don't download music because it isn't the right thing to do.

 

[fps]

I can barely afford to buy more than one or two albums each month. I still don't download music because it isn't the right thing to do.

i download music to check out bands, if i like it enough, i'll end up buying the album i liked. i'll always buy their new album when it comes out, probably go to a show too if they come my way, and buy each subsequent release.

increasingly bands are like charities though. you choose which ones to support.

 

[SentinelSlain]

I buy a lot and I download a fair amount. To be honest if it wasn't for youtube and all of the cool metal that's uploaded to that, often with just the album artwork as the 'video' then I've had downloaded a lot more, as I almost always try before I buy.


Before I started downloading I owned like 5 CDs, afterwards I started buying a couple a week. So there, record companies. I can't afford to to that any more though. I don't really download much either.

 

[fps]

I buy a lot and I download a fair amount. To be honest if it wasn't for youtube and all of the cool metal that's uploaded to that, often with just the album artwork as the 'video' then I've had downloaded a lot more, as I almost always try before I buy.


Before I started downloading I owned like 5 CDs, afterwards I started buying a couple a week. So there, record companies. I can't afford to to that any more though. I don't really download much either.

i'm confused by youtube. is it violating copyright on the grandest of scales? do the record companies believe that one-off plays won't affect sales?